IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum: Is there an Islamic response to John 3?

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StephenC

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Posted: 08 November 2006 at 8:26am

Shi'a view of Uthman

As the Shi'a believe that Ali, Muhammad's cousin and son-in-law, should have been the first caliph, they regard Uthman as a usurper and an enemy of Ali (see Succession to Muhammad). They believe that he is guilty of nepotism, corruption, double-dealing, and turning the empire over to Muhammad's old enemies, the Umayyads. Shi'as believe that Uthman, like many of the other early Muslims, was seduced by the pleasures of power and wealth, and strayed from the strict path of Islam as followed by Ali. There is dispute among the Shi'a as to whether Uthman married two of the Prophet's daughters, with a faction insisting that Ruqayyah and Umm Kulthum bint Muhammad were Muhammad's step-daughters."

Uthman - wikipedia.org

What is your opinion of this? Is wikipedia.org correct in the Shi'a view of Uthman? Did Uthman betray Muhammad the prophet as he apparent did other Muslims?

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BMZ

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Posted: 08 November 2006 at 9:35am

Originally posted by StephenC

Shi'a view of Uthman

Uthman - wikipedia.org

What is your opinion of this? Is wikipedia.org correct in the Shi'a view of Uthman? Did Uthman betray Muhammad the prophet as he apparent did other Muslims?

Very good questions, Stephen. Let me put it as short as possible.

Our Shia brothers try to find Ali in Qur'aan like the Christian brothers try to find Jesus in the Jewish Holy Scriptures or the Jewish Bible.

There was no betrayal of any kind. I have no comments on other matters which I consider irrelevant. It was politics played that caused the people to differ on the leadership.

Regarding Wikipedia, I regret to write that I do not consider that "Pedia" any authority.

BMZ

Edited by bmzsp

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Hanan

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Posted: 08 November 2006 at 9:43am

Hold fast to the rope of Allah, and be not divided

Edited by Hanan

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Redneck

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Posted: 08 November 2006 at 11:09am

salamu'alaykum,

Seems this thread has run amok. Somebody took it off into the rhubarb by bring up questions about Muhammad (sallahu'alayhe assalam) and the Qur'an and has created a lot of confusion.

"One Nation Under Allah"

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StephenC

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Posted: 08 November 2006 at 9:06pm

Originally posted by Hanan

I'm not implying that posted information from Wkipadia is incorrect but would like to make forum members aware of the pit-falls when doing research at Wikipedia. When I retrieve information from Wiki, I always search for at least 2 or more non-Wiki sites to confirm. This is what Wikipadia says about the collection of information and its accuracy:

Excerpts from About Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:About

Since its creation in 2001, Wikipedia has rapidly grown into the largest reference website on the Internet. The content of Wikipedia is free, and is written collaboratively by people from all around the world. This website is a wiki, which means that anyone with access to an Internet-connected computer can edit, correct, or improve information throughout the encyclopedia, simply by clicking the edit this page link (with a few minor exceptions, such as protected articles and the main page).

Because Wikipedia is an ongoing work to which in principle anybody can contribute, it differs from a paper-based reference source in some very important ways.

In particular, older articles tend to be more comprehensive and balanced, while newer articles may still contain significant misinformation, unencyclopedic content, or vandalism. Users need to be aware of this in order to obtain valid information and avoid misinformation which has been recently added and not yet removed. (See Wikipedia:Researching with Wikipedia for more details). However, unlike a paper reference source, Wikipedia is completely up-to-date, with articles on topical events being created or updated within minutes or hours, rather than months or years for printed encyclopedias.

Good point thank you.

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air_one

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Posted: 09 November 2006 at 1:30am

Originally posted by StephenC

One of my main points is that it really doesn't matter - it is the worship of God that is important not the status of the various messengers!

How?

Will God really leave it up to his creation to decide how He will be worshipped?

Will God accept His creations' logical thinking on what is good (allowed) and what is evil (sins)?

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ysimjee

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Posted: 09 November 2006 at 2:32am

A few good statements made.

But to the ones that don’t know, the bible has been chance to sooth the lifestyle of the Christians in this time n era. If they read the original old testament they would find that pork n drinking of wine is also not permitted.

As for the Jewish Torah, they refused to accept that Muhammad (saw) was the last prophet of Allah just because he was n Arab and not from them.

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Angel

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Posted: 09 November 2006 at 3:53am

Originally posted by air_one

Will God accept His creations' logical thinking on what is good (allowed) and what is evil (sins)?

Well, God did give us free will to choose

[IMG]http://www.mysmilie.de/smilies/engel/img/003.gif" />~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~

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Topic: Is there an Islamic response to John 3?
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Author	Message
StephenC Guest Group Joined: 16 September 2006 Online Status: Offline Posts: 264	Posted: 08 November 2006 at 8:26am
	Shi'a view of Uthman As the Shi'a believe that Ali, Muhammad's cousin and son-in-law, should have been the first caliph, they regard Uthman as a usurper and an enemy of Ali (see Succession to Muhammad). They believe that he is guilty of nepotism, corruption, double-dealing, and turning the empire over to Muhammad's old enemies, the Umayyads. Shi'as believe that Uthman, like many of the other early Muslims, was seduced by the pleasures of power and wealth, and strayed from the strict path of Islam as followed by Ali. There is dispute among the Shi'a as to whether Uthman married two of the Prophet's daughters, with a faction insisting that Ruqayyah and Umm Kulthum bint Muhammad were Muhammad's step-daughters." Uthman - wikipedia.org What is your opinion of this? Is wikipedia.org correct in the Shi'a view of Uthman? Did Uthman betray Muhammad the prophet as he apparent did other Muslims?
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BMZ Moderator Group Joined: 03 April 2006 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1852	Posted: 08 November 2006 at 9:35am
	*Originally posted by StephenC* Shi'a view of Uthman As the Shi'a believe that Ali, Muhammad's cousin and son-in-law, should have been the first caliph, they regard Uthman as a usurper and an enemy of Ali (see Succession to Muhammad). They believe that he is guilty of nepotism, corruption, double-dealing, and turning the empire over to Muhammad's old enemies, the Umayyads. Shi'as believe that Uthman, like many of the other early Muslims, was seduced by the pleasures of power and wealth, and strayed from the strict path of Islam as followed by Ali. There is dispute among the Shi'a as to whether Uthman married two of the Prophet's daughters, with a faction insisting that Ruqayyah and Umm Kulthum bint Muhammad were Muhammad's step-daughters." Uthman - wikipedia.org What is your opinion of this? Is wikipedia.org correct in the Shi'a view of Uthman? Did Uthman betray Muhammad the prophet as he apparent did other Muslims? Very good questions, Stephen. Let me put it as short as possible. Our Shia brothers try to find Ali in Qur'aan like the Christian brothers try to find Jesus in the Jewish Holy Scriptures or the Jewish Bible. There was no betrayal of any kind. I have no comments on other matters which I consider irrelevant. It was politics played that caused the people to differ on the leadership. Regarding Wikipedia, I regret to write that I do not consider that "Pedia" any authority. BMZ Edited by bmzsp
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Hanan Senior Member Joined: 27 July 2006 Location: Germany Online Status: Offline Posts: 1035	Posted: 08 November 2006 at 9:43am
	Hold fast to the rope of Allah, and be not divided Edited by Hanan
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Redneck Newbie Joined: 08 November 2006 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 32	Posted: 08 November 2006 at 11:09am
	salamu'alaykum, Seems this thread has run amok. Somebody took it off into the rhubarb by bring up questions about Muhammad (sallahu'alayhe assalam) and the Qur'an and has created a lot of confusion.
	"One Nation Under Allah"
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StephenC Guest Group Joined: 16 September 2006 Online Status: Offline Posts: 264	Posted: 08 November 2006 at 9:06pm
	*Originally posted by Hanan* I'm not implying that posted information from Wkipadia is incorrect but would like to make forum members aware of the pit-falls when doing research at Wikipedia. When I retrieve information from Wiki, I always search for at least 2 or more non-Wiki sites to confirm. This is what Wikipadia says about the collection of information and its accuracy: Excerpts from About Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:About Since its creation in 2001, Wikipedia has rapidly grown into the largest reference website on the Internet. The content of Wikipedia is free, and is written collaboratively by people from all around the world. This website is a wiki, which means that anyone with access to an Internet-connected computer can edit, correct, or improve information throughout the encyclopedia, simply by clicking the edit this page link (with a few minor exceptions, such as protected articles and the main page). Because Wikipedia is an ongoing work to which in principle anybody can contribute, it differs from a paper-based reference source in some very important ways. In particular, older articles tend to be more comprehensive and balanced, while newer articles may still contain significant misinformation, unencyclopedic content, or vandalism. Users need to be aware of this in order to obtain valid information and avoid misinformation which has been recently added and not yet removed. (See Wikipedia:Researching with Wikipedia for more details). However, unlike a paper reference source, Wikipedia is completely up-to-date, with articles on topical events being created or updated within minutes or hours, rather than months or years for printed encyclopedias. Good point thank you.
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air_one Newbie Joined: 23 September 2006 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 35	Posted: 09 November 2006 at 1:30am
	*Originally posted by StephenC* One of my main points is that it really doesn't matter - it is the worship of God that is important not the status of the various messengers! How? Will God really leave it up to his creation to decide how He will be worshipped? Will God accept His creations' logical thinking on what is good (allowed) and what is evil (sins)?
	IP Logged

ysimjee Groupie Joined: 08 November 2006 Location: South Africa Online Status: Offline Posts: 48	Posted: 09 November 2006 at 2:32am
	A few good statements made. But to the ones that don’t know, the bible has been chance to sooth the lifestyle of the Christians in this time n era. If they read the original old testament they would find that pork n drinking of wine is also not permitted. As for the Jewish Torah, they refused to accept that Muhammad (saw) was the last prophet of Allah just because he was n Arab and not from them.
	IP Logged

Angel Senior Member Joined: 03 July 2001 Online Status: Offline Posts: 6626	Posted: 09 November 2006 at 3:53am
	*Originally posted by air_one* Will God accept His creations' logical thinking on what is good (allowed) and what is evil (sins)? Well, God did give us free will to choose
	[IMG]http://www.mysmilie.de/smilies/engel/img/003.gif" />~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~
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