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Interfaith Dialogue
 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : Religion - Islam : Interfaith Dialogue
Message Icon Topic: Is there an Islamic response to John 3? Post Reply Post New Topic
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Sign*Reader
 
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Quote Sign*Reader Replybullet Posted: 06 November 2006 at 12:12am
Originally posted by StephenC

Which sounds more creditable:

The story of Jesus Christ

or

The story of Muhammad?

As Jesus said, you can tell the truthfulness of a prophet by his works.

I would add, you can tell the truthfulness of a religion by how it treats people.

The Jewish and Muslim religions have strict punishments for the slightest violations.

How does the religious punishments of Christianity compare to that of Judahism and Islam?

I realize that over the years individuals and committees have converted religious beliefs for person gain and bias, but reading the actual text - which religion is more in line with what YOU think God is like?

Remember, we all worship the same God, it is the messengers (including false messengers) that cause the problems!


I don't know what demon is upon you which bugging you around. You say you don't have religion but sound like pitching Jesus, Christianity against Islam and Muhammad and now Judaism. Just forget about your moronic comparisons, who cares, go get a massage from  Haggard's boy friend.
and enjoy his confession, there is no punishment for him now it will be on the Doom's day for sure.  dayhttp://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-hagg ard6nov06,0,7806096.story?coll=la-home-headlines

Haggard bares his soul in note to congregation

Thousands listen as the former evangelical leader shares his moral failings in a letter read from the pulpit.
By Stephanie Simon, Times Staff Writer
November 6, 2006

COLORADO SPRINGS, COLO. In the hush of a Sunday morning,

"I am a deceiver and a liar," Haggard told 9,000 of his followers in a letter read from the pulpit of New Life Church by one of his spiritual mentors. "There's a part of my life that is so repulsive and dark that I have been warring against it for all of my adult life."---------------------What do you say
Kismet Domino: Faith/Courage/Liberty/Abundance/Selfishness/Immorality/Apathy/Bondage or extinction.
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Quote StephenC Replybullet Posted: 06 November 2006 at 6:37am
Originally posted by Andalus

[QUOTE=StephenC]

Which sounds more creditable:

The story of Jesus Christ

or

The story of Muhammad?

As Jesus said, you can tell the truthfulness of a prophet by his works.

How can you be sure what Jesus said?

 

[quote]

Let's see.  The life and times of Jesus Christ in the New Testament was written by contempary eyewitnesses who's accounts while not exactly the same (no witness gives the exact same account as anotheer witness) gives basically the same events and sayings.

With the life and times of Muhammad in the Quran, it was written well by a committee who picked and chose what would go in and what would not.  Anything not included in the final Quran was destroyed.  This committeewas commissioned by someone who allegedly showed favoritism and bias towards his own clan.

Which is more reliable?  That is solely up to the reader.

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Quote StephenC Replybullet Posted: 06 November 2006 at 6:43am
Originally posted by Andalus

[QUOTE=StephenC]

I would add, you can tell the truthfulness of a religion by how it treats people.

The Jewish and Muslim religions have strict punishments for the slightest violations.

Irrational.

Christianity allows people to do whatever they like, therefore it is a better religion. LOL...Thats what you just said.

Islam, nor Judaism punish for the slightest violations.

[quote]

I just love your one word sentence.  They pack such insight into them that no explanation would seem to be necessary, unless of course the reader demands more than"blind faith and obedience!"

I am not such a person.  God gave me a brain to reason and ask questions.  If you would quit being so timid about your religion and attempt to give honest answers to honest questions, you would learn more.

And no, I did not say Christians could do whatever they want.  And NO your lie is not what I said.  Anyone can read what I wrote.  Well, maybe you can not, but others can.

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Quote StephenC Replybullet Posted: 06 November 2006 at 6:52am
Originally posted by Andalus

[QUOTE=StephenC]

How does the religious punishments of Christianity compare to that of Judahism and Islam?

Your "complex" question uses an assumption that is false. The comparison cannot be made given the ambiguity of Christian theology regarding "law" . Depends how you interpret the Pauline letters as to how much law from the Torah, or Hebrew Scriptures you will use.

Christendom, for the most part, have chosen to reject Gd's law out of convenience, as they create their own, and that has been revised with utter failure for 2000 years. 

[quote]

Initially, I would take except with your characterization of my posting as "complex questions" but then I realize that to a person who likes to post one word sentences, anything containing more than two words maybe "complex."

I could break it down to:

How does the punishments of Christianity compare to that of Judahism?

and

How dooes the punishments of Christianity compare to that of Islam?

Does that make it easier for you to understand?  Care to answer, perferrably with more than a one word answer?  But if it is a strain, don't! 

As for YOUR BASELESS claim that "Christendom, for the most part, have chosen to reject Gd's law out of convenience, as they create their own, and that has been revised with utter failure for 2000 years. "

What is your proof?

Yes, some Christian religions have adopted pagan churches and traditions, but so has Islam!

Some Christians have elevated apostles to positions of semi-worship, but so has islam!

Shall I continue or will removing the veil from your eyes offend you too much?

 

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Quote StephenC Replybullet Posted: 06 November 2006 at 6:57am
Originally posted by Andalus

[QUOTE=StephenC]

I realize that over the years individuals and committees have converted religious beliefs for person gain and bias, but reading the actual text - which religion is more in line with what YOU think God is like?

Who cares. If you think you can define Gd based upon complete conjecture, then you are more ignorant than I ever would have guessed.

Here is a tip (it is free for you):

Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt

-Lincoln

[quote]

Trust me, I lost all doubt about your ignorance many many posts ago!

Your "Who cares." sic (Shouldn't that be a question?) statement (at least you used TWO words in that sentence, so I quess our discussions are improving you in some manner) about my question on people injection personal bias and gain into a religion is a prime example.

EVERYONE should care!  At least everyone who truly wants to worship God!

 

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Quote StephenC Replybullet Posted: 06 November 2006 at 7:03am
Originally posted by Andalus

Originally posted by StephenC

Remember, we all worship the same God, it is the messengers (including false messengers) that cause the problems!

how do you know? How can you be sure?

There is some merit to the theory that certain religions worship the Devil.  However, I am not prepared to make such a claim without proof.  I tend to accept doctrine unless it is faulty.

For example, it is my understanding that Judahism, Christianity, and Islam all worship the God of Abraham.  And that the major differences is what the various prophets allegedly claimed.

The real differences between Islam and the other two mentioned religions is that Christianity builds upon Judahism without changing anything.  Whereas, Islam changes the messages of the status of certain people in the other two religions.

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Quote BMZ Replybullet Posted: 06 November 2006 at 8:58am

Stephen,

Let's take a look at what you wrote and I have put in bold some of the striking parts of your comment:

"For example, it is my understanding that Judahism, Christianity, and Islam all worship the God of Abraham.  And that the major differences is what the various prophets allegedly claimed."

Read the entire Jewish Holy Scriptures ONLY, not the Christian Old Testament. The message of all the prophets was the same and the message of Muhammad was exactly the same. Compare the messages of Qur'aan with Isaiah and you will be dazzled.

In the case of Jesus, his message was the same but the various writers of the gospels, Paul and others after him over a period of 561 years made the major changes and kept on making, to what the prophet, Jesus truly claimed. And notice that the time of Muhammad's arrival gets so close.  God was watching, my friend.

Let's come now to your 2nd remark:

"The real differences between Islam and the other two mentioned religions is that Christianity builds upon Judahism without changing anything.  Whereas, Islam changes the messages of the status of certain people in the other two religions."

Please read the Jewish Holy Scriptures side by side with the Christian Old Testament, which the Jews do not even recognise and never call it by that name and see what has been done. Read just Isaiah and Psalms of the Jewish Holy Scriptures and compare with the same of The Old Testament and find out yourself what Christianity has done to the Jewish Holy Scriptures. They made a God out of a man, whom they could not understand, while the Jews never did any such thing in their history and still remain fiercely monotheistic. Christianity changed Judaism completely and came up with a poor manifestation of God which they had spun on in Jesus.

Wonder how they did it!  It is not that Jesus did it but the writers and philosophers of the time did it. Heck, they kept on discussing the nature of Jesus for over 365-451 years and that can be seen from the two Creeds that were written 3-4 centuries after he was gone.

I Will give you an example. In Isaiah, God says,"I am the the First and I am the Last" and John after plagiarising made it, "Jesus said,'I am the Alpha and I am the Omega."

Another wrong example given in defence of trinity: "Holy, holy, holy, is God" and this does not mean three holies. In Hebrew, anything pronounced three times is the superlative degree. In other words, in modern English "Holy, holy, holy" simply means the holiest.

BMZ



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Quote StephenC Replybullet Posted: 06 November 2006 at 11:48am
Originally posted by bmzsp

Stephen,

Let's take a look at what you wrote and I have put in bold some of the striking parts of your comment:

"For example, it is my understanding that Judahism, Christianity, and Islam all worship the God of Abraham.  And that the major differences is what the various prophets allegedly claimed."

Read the entire Jewish Holy Scriptures ONLY, not the Christian Old Testament. The message of all the prophets was the same and the message of Muhammad was exactly the same. Compare the messages of Qur'aan with Isaiah and you will be dazzled.

In the case of Jesus, his message was the same but the various writers of the gospels, Paul and others after him over a period of 561 years made the major changes and kept on making, to what the prophet, Jesus truly claimed. And notice that the time of Muhammad's arrival gets so close.  God was watching, my friend.

Thank you for the response.  It is my understanding from reading both the Old Testament and the New Testament that the early Christians believe that Jesus Christ is the Messiah that the Jews are still waiting for.  Is that an incorrect understanding?

I don't recall the verse, but John the Baptist was in prison and he sent two of his disciples to ask Jesus if he was the one.  Do you remember what Jesus' response was?

So, if I understand you correctly you believe the contemporary eyyewitness accounts were either wrong or else changed over the years.  Yet you accept without reservation the committee's (commissioned by Uthman) compilation of what they thought should go into the written Quran and the destruction of what they thought should not go into it?

I can understand how you might feel that the New Testament may have been "corrupted" by the personal bias of the writers and later editors.  Can you not see how I feel that the exact same possibility MAY have occurred with the Quran?

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