IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum: Why didn’t Muslims leave India?

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Nausheen
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Posted: 30 April 2005 at 7:50am

Bhartiya,

Peace to you.

If you are rational with me, you will find me rational. If you fight with your presumptions that do not apply to me, I will not accept.

You said you dont want Muslims to leave, but I have found many, many hindus who put us into a witness box coaxing us to prove our loyalty to India Why do you do this?

Why do you not think muslims can be as loyal to India as any Indian born in that country?

I want to show you something, and this will be the end of my discussion with you. I hope you enjoy your stay at IC, if u dont speak the language of hate.

Check this ..... http://wb.islamicity.com:8080/~IslamiCity/read?56716,47 .... read the whole thread -

India is not oppressing Islam ... nothing more than america or isreal or france or germany.
There are mosques in every village ... even those villages which might not have a hindu temple, will still have a mosque This is a very minor example, yet noteworthy.
I will state just one more(tho there are plenty others) .... We are hearing about France and Germany, and Turkey (of all the nations) imposing a ban on the islamic attire of women. There is no such hue and cry over the 'burqa' in India :p

I am with India, an Indian, and i am also a Muslim. Further, I dont think there is any stupidity in myself for being this way ;)

Maa salaama,
Nausheen

Be not heedless of thy Lord
for even the blink of an eye,
Lest He directs His attention towards you,
and finds you unawares.

Also read this http://wb.islamicity.com:8080/~IslamiCity/read?63606,47 ... Read the whole thread.

I am not what you thought I am. And you offend me by presuming my ideals as what I have always stood against.

Peace.

Wanu nazzilu minal Qurani ma huwa
Shafaa un wa rahmatun lil mo'mineena
wa la yaziduzzalimeena illa khasara.

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ZamanH

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Posted: 30 April 2005 at 10:31am

But its the thing of the past. Now caste system exists only as a political propaganda.

That's not right. But that's off the topic, therefore, I won't comment on it further.

What about so many Muslims supporting the Pakistani ISI?

What about funding the Kashmiri militants?

Whats wrong with our friendship with Israel? When Pakistan is friends with China, why not India friends with Israel? India is the only nation where the Jews were not persecuted.

I don't support "Islamic" terrorism. But Indian govt. did not manufacture the air Muslims breathe in, the land they live in or the water they drink. Muslims owe their allegiance to Allah and not the Indian Govt. Muslims identify themselves more with their religion than their country. We see Indian govt. as a partner, not as God.

An enemy of an enemy is a fickle friend.
There will be more women in hell than men.
..for persecution is worse than the slaughter of the enemy..(Quran 2:191)
Heaven lies under mother's feet

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ZamanH

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Posted: 30 April 2005 at 10:34am

Hindus in a minority submit to the ways of the majority.

That is interesting. But lets admit it Muslims also tend to do the same. For example if you look at Muslims in Eastern Europe or those settled in the West.

An enemy of an enemy is a fickle friend.
There will be more women in hell than men.
..for persecution is worse than the slaughter of the enemy..(Quran 2:191)
Heaven lies under mother's feet

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Nausheen
Female Islam
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Joined: 10 January 2001
Location: Japan
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Posts: 4146

Posted: 30 April 2005 at 10:59am

Originally posted by ZamanH

Hindus in a minority submit to the ways of the majority.

That is interesting. But lets admit it Muslims also tend to do the same. For example if you look at Muslims in Eastern Europe or those settled in the West.

Acceptable.

However, in general it is those muslims, who have come from a country (Islamic republic) where Islamic sharia is imposed without reason or rationale. Like the saudis, the Iranis, or the egyptians. And again I will say they are a small fraction of that population.

Here, and in Japan, I met many muslims from Indonesia, Malaysia, Iran, Egypt, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Morocco, Somalia (I dont know may be am missing a few) and they are all adhering to Islam as beautifully as one should.

For Hindus, who are coming from India, there is no sharia no religious stiffling going on for them in India, yet they adopt to the ways of the west very fast - this was my point.

Peace (if you want it)

Wanu nazzilu minal Qurani ma huwa
Shafaa un wa rahmatun lil mo'mineena
wa la yaziduzzalimeena illa khasara.

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Suleyman

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Posted: 30 April 2005 at 11:04am

Peace (if you want it)

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ZamanH

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Posted: 30 April 2005 at 11:20am

However, in general it is those muslims, who have come from a country (Islamic republic) where Islamic sharia is imposed without reason or rationale.

I was not talking of political refugees. Besides, they don't change simply because of the oppression they face in their country. That is not the cause. Those Muslims, who appear to you to have changed after coming to the West, actually lived in the same manner in their own country and because of which they had to abandon their land. They didn't change after coming to the West (they had changed much earlier).

Either you are right or my brother (he has been working in the U.S for more than one and a half year). I don't know.

Peace (if you want it)

JUSTICE is more important than peace.

Edited by ZamanH

An enemy of an enemy is a fickle friend.
There will be more women in hell than men.
..for persecution is worse than the slaughter of the enemy..(Quran 2:191)
Heaven lies under mother's feet

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ZamanH

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Joined: 21 July 2004
Location: India
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Posts: 448

Posted: 30 April 2005 at 6:35pm

Why is it that the drainage system, roads, electricity supply etc in a muslim dominated locality of any city the worst?

Muslims are backward because Muslims are traditional and are averse to WEstern education. Maybe that is because Islam is a monothiestic religion and corruption (or exploitation of the poor) in the name of religion has been less in Islam compared to other religions, as a result of which modern Muslims reformers didn't attack their religion, unlike reformers in other religions such as Hinduism who attacked the practise of caste-system etc.

An enemy of an enemy is a fickle friend.
There will be more women in hell than men.
..for persecution is worse than the slaughter of the enemy..(Quran 2:191)
Heaven lies under mother's feet

IP Logged

bharatiya

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Joined: 26 April 2005
Location: India
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 157

Posted: 30 April 2005 at 8:44pm

Sister Nausheen,

Peace be to all.

Originally posted by Nausheen

If you are rational with me, you will find me rational. If you fight with your presumptions that do not apply to me, I will not accept.

No offence meant.

You said you dont want Muslims to leave, but I have found many, many hindus who put us into a witness box coaxing us to prove our loyalty to India Why do you do this?

Well, there is a general belief in most 'hindus' that Muslims are not patriotic. This may be because of their allegaince with Pakistan. As Zaman brother himself said, "Muslims identify themselves more with their religion than their country." This is dubbed as "Muslims are unpatriotic". And their had been instances of Muslims betraying the government. For example, a Muslim who was made the head of RAW, fled to Pakistan. From then on RAW waivered to recruit Muslims into RAW. And underworlds like, Dawood Ibrahim and Abu Salem, seem to strength it.

Why do you not think muslims can be as loyal to India as any Indian born in that country?

Well, even I sometimes ask my Muslim friends, "Do you really like India?". I have said thats the general feeling.

I want to show you something, and this will be the end of my discussion with you. I hope you enjoy your stay at IC, if u dont speak the language of hate.

Check this ..... http://wb.islamicity.com:8080/~IslamiCity/read?56716,47 .... read the whole thread -

Also read this http://wb.islamicity.com:8080/~IslamiCity/read?63606,47 ... Read the whole thread.

I never asked to show your loyalty.

I am not what you thought I am. And you offend me by presuming my ideals as what I have always stood against.

I never thought anything about you. And I am sorry if I hurt you sister Nausheen.

Peace and Love.

THE SOIL OF BHARAT IS MY HIGHEST HEAVEN, THE GOOD OF BHARAT IS MY GOOD.

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Topic: Why didn’t Muslims leave India?
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Author	Message
Nausheen Female Islam Senior Member Senior Member Joined: 10 January 2001 Location: Japan Online Status: Offline Posts: 4146	Posted: 30 April 2005 at 7:50am
	Bhartiya, Peace to you. If you are rational with me, you will find me rational. If you fight with your presumptions that do not apply to me, I will not accept. You said you dont want Muslims to leave, but I have found many, many hindus who put us into a witness box coaxing us to prove our loyalty to India Why do you do this? Why do you not think muslims can be as loyal to India as any Indian born in that country? I want to show you something, and this will be the end of my discussion with you. I hope you enjoy your stay at IC, if u dont speak the language of hate. Check this ..... http://wb.islamicity.com:8080/~IslamiCity/read?56716,47 .... read the whole thread - India is not oppressing Islam ... nothing more than america or isreal or france or germany. There are mosques in every village ... even those villages which might not have a hindu temple, will still have a mosque This is a very minor example, yet noteworthy. I will state just one more(tho there are plenty others) .... We are hearing about France and Germany, and Turkey (of all the nations) imposing a ban on the islamic attire of women. There is no such hue and cry over the 'burqa' in India :p I am with India, an Indian, and i am also a Muslim. Further, I dont think there is any stupidity in myself for being this way ;) Maa salaama, Nausheen Be not heedless of thy Lord for even the blink of an eye, Lest He directs His attention towards you, and finds you unawares. Also read this http://wb.islamicity.com:8080/~IslamiCity/read?63606,47 ... Read the whole thread. I am not what you thought I am. And you offend me by presuming my ideals as what I have always stood against. Peace.
	Wanu nazzilu minal Qurani ma huwa Shafaa un wa rahmatun lil mo'mineena wa la yaziduzzalimeena illa khasara.
	IP Logged

ZamanH Guest Group Account Suspended Joined: 21 July 2004 Location: India Online Status: Offline Posts: 448	Posted: 30 April 2005 at 10:31am
	But its the thing of the past. Now caste system exists only as a political propaganda. That's not right. But that's off the topic, therefore, I won't comment on it further. What about so many Muslims supporting the Pakistani ISI? What about funding the Kashmiri militants? Whats wrong with our friendship with Israel? When Pakistan is friends with China, why not India friends with Israel? India is the only nation where the Jews were not persecuted. I don't support "Islamic" terrorism. But Indian govt. did not manufacture the air Muslims breathe in, the land they live in or the water they drink. Muslims owe their allegiance to Allah and not the Indian Govt. Muslims identify themselves more with their religion than their country. We see Indian govt. as a partner, not as God.
	An enemy of an enemy is a fickle friend. There will be more women in hell than men. ..for persecution is worse than the slaughter of the enemy..(Quran 2:191) Heaven lies under mother's feet
	IP Logged

ZamanH Guest Group Account Suspended Joined: 21 July 2004 Location: India Online Status: Offline Posts: 448	Posted: 30 April 2005 at 10:34am
	Hindus in a minority submit to the ways of the majority. That is interesting. But lets admit it Muslims also tend to do the same. For example if you look at Muslims in Eastern Europe or those settled in the West.
	An enemy of an enemy is a fickle friend. There will be more women in hell than men. ..for persecution is worse than the slaughter of the enemy..(Quran 2:191) Heaven lies under mother's feet
	IP Logged

Nausheen Female Islam Senior Member Senior Member Joined: 10 January 2001 Location: Japan Online Status: Offline Posts: 4146	Posted: 30 April 2005 at 10:59am
	*Originally posted by ZamanH* Hindus in a minority submit to the ways of the majority. That is interesting. But lets admit it Muslims also tend to do the same. For example if you look at Muslims in Eastern Europe or those settled in the West. Acceptable. However, in general it is those muslims, who have come from a country (Islamic republic) where Islamic sharia is imposed without reason or rationale. Like the saudis, the Iranis, or the egyptians. And again I will say they are a small fraction of that population. Here, and in Japan, I met many muslims from Indonesia, Malaysia, Iran, Egypt, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Morocco, Somalia (I dont know may be am missing a few) and they are all adhering to Islam as beautifully as one should. For Hindus, who are coming from India, there is no sharia no religious stiffling going on for them in India, yet they adopt to the ways of the west very fast - this was my point. Peace (if you want it)
	Wanu nazzilu minal Qurani ma huwa Shafaa un wa rahmatun lil mo'mineena wa la yaziduzzalimeena illa khasara.
	IP Logged

Suleyman Senior Member Joined: 10 March 2003 Location: Turkey Online Status: Offline Posts: 3324	Posted: 30 April 2005 at 11:04am
	Peace (if you want it)
	IP Logged

ZamanH Guest Group Account Suspended Joined: 21 July 2004 Location: India Online Status: Offline Posts: 448	Posted: 30 April 2005 at 11:20am
	However, in general it is those muslims, who have come from a country (Islamic republic) where Islamic sharia is imposed without reason or rationale. I was not talking of political refugees. Besides, they don't change simply because of the oppression they face in their country. That is not the cause. Those Muslims, who appear to you to have changed after coming to the West, actually lived in the same manner in their own country and because of which they had to abandon their land. They didn't change after coming to the West (they had changed much earlier). Here, and in Japan, I met many muslims from Indonesia, Malaysia, Iran, Egypt, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Morocco, Somalia (I dont know may be am missing a few) and they are all adhering to Islam as beautifully as one should. Either you are right or my brother (he has been working in the U.S for more than one and a half year). I don't know. Peace (if you want it) JUSTICE is more important than peace. Edited by ZamanH
	An enemy of an enemy is a fickle friend. There will be more women in hell than men. ..for persecution is worse than the slaughter of the enemy..(Quran 2:191) Heaven lies under mother's feet
	IP Logged

ZamanH Guest Group Account Suspended Joined: 21 July 2004 Location: India Online Status: Offline Posts: 448	Posted: 30 April 2005 at 6:35pm
	Why is it that the drainage system, roads, electricity supply etc in a muslim dominated locality of any city the worst? Muslims are backward because Muslims are traditional and are averse to WEstern education. Maybe that is because Islam is a monothiestic religion and corruption (or exploitation of the poor) in the name of religion has been less in Islam compared to other religions, as a result of which modern Muslims reformers didn't attack their religion, unlike reformers in other religions such as Hinduism who attacked the practise of caste-system etc.
	An enemy of an enemy is a fickle friend. There will be more women in hell than men. ..for persecution is worse than the slaughter of the enemy..(Quran 2:191) Heaven lies under mother's feet
	IP Logged

bharatiya Senior Member Joined: 26 April 2005 Location: India Online Status: Offline Posts: 157	Posted: 30 April 2005 at 8:44pm
	Sister Nausheen, Peace be to all. *Originally posted by Nausheen* If you are rational with me, you will find me rational. If you fight with your presumptions that do not apply to me, I will not accept. No offence meant. You said you dont want Muslims to leave, but I have found many, many hindus who put us into a witness box coaxing us to prove our loyalty to India Why do you do this? Well, there is a general belief in most 'hindus' that Muslims are not patriotic. This may be because of their allegaince with Pakistan. As Zaman brother himself said, "Muslims identify themselves more with their religion than their country." This is dubbed as "Muslims are unpatriotic". And their had been instances of Muslims betraying the government. For example, a Muslim who was made the head of RAW, fled to Pakistan. From then on RAW waivered to recruit Muslims into RAW. And underworlds like, Dawood Ibrahim and Abu Salem, seem to strength it. Why do you not think muslims can be as loyal to India as any Indian born in that country? Well, even I sometimes ask my Muslim friends, "Do you really like India?". I have said thats the general feeling. I want to show you something, and this will be the end of my discussion with you. I hope you enjoy your stay at IC, if u dont speak the language of hate. Check this ..... http://wb.islamicity.com:8080/~IslamiCity/read?56716,47 .... read the whole thread - India is not oppressing Islam ... nothing more than america or isreal or france or germany. There are mosques in every village ... even those villages which might not have a hindu temple, will still have a mosque This is a very minor example, yet noteworthy. I will state just one more(tho there are plenty others) .... We are hearing about France and Germany, and Turkey (of all the nations) imposing a ban on the islamic attire of women. There is no such hue and cry over the 'burqa' in India :p I am with India, an Indian, and i am also a Muslim. Further, I dont think there is any stupidity in myself for being this way ;) Maa salaama, Nausheen Be not heedless of thy Lord for even the blink of an eye, Lest He directs His attention towards you, and finds you unawares. Also read this http://wb.islamicity.com:8080/~IslamiCity/read?63606,47 ... Read the whole thread. I never asked to show your loyalty. I am not what you thought I am. And you offend me by presuming my ideals as what I have always stood against. I never thought anything about you. And I am sorry if I hurt you sister Nausheen. Peace and Love.
	THE SOIL OF BHARAT IS MY HIGHEST HEAVEN, THE GOOD OF BHARAT IS MY GOOD.
	IP Logged