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Islam for non-Muslims
 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : Religion - Islam : Islam for non-Muslims
Message Icon Topic: "First Edition" Quran(Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post Reply Post New Topic
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StephenC
 
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bullet Posted: 02 November 2006 at 8:29pm
Originally posted by Angel

[QUOTE=StephenC]

I will try it simpler.

The oldest complete Qur'an was written approximately two hundred years after the death of Muhammad.

I believe you need to get your facts right, in another thread you say 100 years, now in this its 200 years ??

[quote]

"This eighth century manuscript from Mecca or Medina is one of the two oldest known existing copies of the Quran."

"In 632, just three years later, he was suddenly taken ill and on June 8 of that year, with his third wife 'Aishah in attendance, the Messenger of God "died with the heat of noon."

Both quotes are from  www.Islamicity.com History of Islam

What is the math?  It could be as low as 100 years or approximately 200 years depending on when in the eighth century it was written.

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StephenC
 
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bullet Posted: 02 November 2006 at 8:39pm
Stephen wrote:
Quote:
NO known Quran was written during Muhammad's lifetime.

Angel responded: "That is because it was in oral transmission, re-read fatima's post about this in the other thread 'I came back to islam'."

But www.islamicity.com History of Islam states:

"With great difficulty, the task was carried out and the first complete manuscript compiled from "bits of parchment, thin white stones - ostracae - leafless palm branches, and the memories of men." Later, during the time of 'Uthman, the third caliph, a final, authorized text was prepared and completed in 651, and this has remained the text in use ever since."

So at least parts of the Quran was written down (on parchment) prior to the "final" (if there is only one would the better word be "only" instead of "final" be more appropriate?) "authorized" text (again that appears to indicate unauthorized text!)

On another side, did the committee do a rough draft first (what happened to it).

Also Uthman "Realizing that the original message from God might be inadvertently distorted by textual variants, he appointed a committee to collect the canonical verses and destroy the variant recensions. The result was the text that is accepted to this day throughout the Muslim world." www.islamicity.com History of Islam

So would it be contrary to this paragraph to deduce that between the death of Muhammad and Uthman's committee's work, there were "textual variants" and "variant recensions" or is www.islamicity.com posting anti-islamic material?

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StephenC
 
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bullet Posted: 02 November 2006 at 8:46pm

Angel wrote:

"There is no new version of the qu'ran, there is only an original/earliest surviving book ..."

Where is that "original/earliest surviving book"?  What happened to the first copy that was produced by Uthman's committee back around 640 AD?

By the way, no one (except you) is talking about a "new version of the Quran."  I was talking about a surviving copy produced prior to the 8th century that may or may not be exactly like the later copy.

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StephenC
 
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bullet Posted: 02 November 2006 at 8:57pm

Angel wrote:

"To learn anothers beliefs/religion you need to put aside your own beliefs otherwise you will not be objective enough. Fair enough you don't believe certain things but you cannot say that so and so cannot believe in something because you see something as wrong according to you. "

First I am taken to task because I do NOT state my beliefs, then I am taken to task because I did state my beliefs.  Now you imply that my beliefs keep me from being objective.

Ok, please explain to me how my beliefs have anything what so ever to do with the fact that the Quran was compiled by a committee who (according to www.islamicity.com) decided what went into it and what did not go into it.  And the "first edition" copy of this (and all those written after it until the 8th century) was destroyed?

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StephenC
 
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bullet Posted: 02 November 2006 at 9:06pm

Angel wrote:

"I can share what i believe in but i won't tell others that they have to or must believe in it, and that is what you are doing, telling others to believe otherwise thinking that you know better ...

Where have I told others what to believe or not believe?

I am merely pointing out issues that I see with Islam.  Issues that if they are left unresolved distracts from the message of the Quran!

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peacemaker
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bullet Posted: 03 November 2006 at 6:11am

StephenC,

You are just repeating the same thing over and over again. You have already got enough warnings. You jump from topic to topic without listening to responses. You raise a question, and when you receive a response, you ignore that and jump to another question, and create another thread. So many threads you created without having any willingness to engage in interfaith discussion, and still keep blaming Islam for all your problems without any evidence.

Then which of the favours of your Lord will ye deny?
Qur'an 55:13
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