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Message Icon Topic: Australian PM condemns sheik’s sermon Post Reply Post New Topic
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candid
 
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Quote candid Replybullet Posted: 26 October 2006 at 3:40am

Originally posted by Angel

Yes I am outraged! I have a right to be, just like muslims are outraged about not wearing hijab!

Do whatever you want. You have the right to whine. So do I have the right to ignore you.



Edited by candid
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Quote Angel Replybullet Posted: 26 October 2006 at 5:17am
Originally posted by herjihad

Salaams and Bismillah,

Well, I'd like to hear what the people at the Austrailian mosque who heard this are saying.

Don't know if anyone there comes here  but I do know from the news reports that muslim women leaders and other muslim women also condemn what the sheik mentioned whether they wear veil or not, as well as other male muslims. One muslim woman that come onto the a current affairs program tonight mentioned that being covered is not a deterent but more of a spiritual and personal issue. My kind of woman :), its what i've been saying along that being covered/modest is not going to stop.  

His metaphor was incorrect and just a really bad metaphor all around.  It seems to reveal that he believes that if a woman is scantily dressed, it is an obvious and definite consequence that she be attacked. 

I would vote him out, but I'm not in that congregation.

This isn't the first time he's been under fire

The iman granted an interview with A Current affairs program. I have no transcript don't think it has come thru yet even if there is one but here's a latest report from ninemsn.

 

Sheik to stay but apologises for offence

Thursday Oct 26 19:21 AEST

Australia's senior Muslim cleric cannot be sacked or deported despite the outrage caused by him saying immodestly dressed women invite sexual attacks.

Sheik Taj Aldin Alhilali "unreservedly" apologised for any offence caused to women by his comments, made in a Ramadan sermon last month.

But he said he had been misunderstood and added: "I had only intended to protect women's honour."

The mufti of Australia and New Zealand is under intense pressure from within the Muslim community over the sermon in which he likened scantily-dressed women to uncovered meat eaten by animals.

Many Muslim leaders and groups distanced themselves from his remarks and some called for their religious figurehead to stand down.

Five Muslim leaders at Gallipoli Mosque in Sydney's west said many Muslims were "sick and tired" of religious leaders like Sheik Alhilali claiming to speak on their behalf.

"Whether he steps down or not, I think it's time for Australia's Muslim faith to have a religious leader who has a better understanding of Australian laws, Australian values, and the Australian way of life," said Alia Karaman, one of three women in the group.

A former member of the federal government's Muslim Advisory board, Iktimal Hage-Ali, said she had listened to a recording of Sheik Alhilali's speech and believed he should be stripped of his position.

"I was just flabbergasted," she told ABC radio.

Prime Minister John Howard labelled Sheik Alhilali's comments "appalling and reprehensible".

"They are quite out of touch with contemporary values in Australia.

"The idea that women are to blame for rapes is preposterous."

Federal Sex Discrimination Commissioner Pru Goward suggested the sheik be dumped or deported, saying: "I think it is time he left."

But, as an Australian citizen, the mufti cannot be deported and in his position as Islam's most senior religious figure in Australia, he is not answerable to any organisation.

The Egypt-born imam came to Australia in 1982 and cannot have his citizenship revoked.

He was appointed mufti by Australia's peak Islamic body, the Federation of Islamic Councils of Australia (FICA), 15 years ago, but no-one has the authority to sack him.

"Nobody can sack him because it's not an elected position," said Amir Ali, the chairman of the Prime Minister's Muslim Community Reference Group and immediate past president of FICA.

The Lebanese Muslim Association (LMA) can withdraw his right to speak at Sydney's Lakemba Mosque, where he preaches, but has given him "the benefit of the doubt" until it reviews the tape of his contentious sermon.

Sheik Alhilali appeared badly affected by the backlash to his remarks, with a spokesman saying he was depressed and confined to bed all day, breathing with the assistance of an oxygen tank.

The storm of outrage followed The Australian newspaper's translation of his speech last month.

According to the translation, Sheik Alhilali said: "If you take out uncovered meat and place it outside on the street, or in the garden or in the park, or in the backyard without a cover, and the cats come and eat it ... whose fault is it, the cats or the uncovered meat.

"The uncovered meat is the problem.

"If she was in her room, in her home, in her hijab (Islamic headscarf which covers the hair neck and shoulders), no problem would have occurred."

In a statement later, the sheik apologised but said the translation misrepresented his intentions.

He also rejected calls from across the Muslim and non-Muslim community to retract his comments.

In the statement, he said his speech related to religious teachings on modesty and did not condone rape.

"I condemn rape and reiterate that this is a capital crime," he said.

He also told the Nine Network he would not resign, and that he believed he had the support of Australia's Muslim community.

He added: "It's a woman's prerogative and right to dress how she wishes in this society - nobody can force or expects to force or compel a woman to dress in a particular way."



Edited by Angel
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Quote Angel Replybullet Posted: 26 October 2006 at 5:33am
Originally posted by candid

Originally posted by Angel

Originally posted by candid

What's the big deal, anyway? Since when did Western women start caring about their modesty. How does it matter if their "modesty" is outraged? I bet they liked getting raped.

HOW DARE YOU?????  

NO ONE LIKES GETTING RAPED WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU GOING ON ABOUT!

Attitdues like yours Candid is why non muslims continue with misunderstanding about islam and continue to hate it!

How does it matter if their modesty is outraged???, it matters like the hijab!

you're unbelievable i cannot believe what you said but then again it seems it is only muslims (well some) that make such a remark! I haven't come across any other group of people who makes these.

Hahahahahahahaha

What BS? what it has to do with my being Muslim. Historically, christians/westerners have been (and continue to be) lot more barbaric and murderous than the Muslims. If that's the reason you (and other non-muslims) claim to hate Islam that is an outright lie. Its just a pretext to cover your xenophobia.   

American soldiers have a record of the indulging in such activities wherever U.S bases have been established. An american soldier was jailed for just 32 months for raping a japenese women.By the way, why the disparity in punishment of non-muslim and muslim rapists in Australia/United States?

I think that only chaste women can be emotionally hurted through rape. I thought it won't matter to Australian women getting raped because they are unchaste anyway. How can their "modesty" be possibly outraged? They themselves don't value it.

what has the majority of the above reply got to do with anything of the topic?? amercian soliders??? historically christians/westerners??

YOU have no clue do you?

Candid did you know that this sheik was also addressing muslim women, in no where written or on tv or by the shiek himself was there a distinction between Australian non muslim women and Australian muslim women??

By the way, why the disparity in punishment of non-muslim and muslim rapists in Australia/United States?

oh i don't know, PERHAPS ITS A DIPORABLE AND DISPECCABLE ACT!!! DONE BY ANYONE!!! 

Also i said i never hated islam but by the comments that some muslims make along with yours - yes I can understand why some people misunderstand islam and hate it.

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Quote Angel Replybullet Posted: 26 October 2006 at 5:41am
Originally posted by candid

Originally posted by Angel

Yes I am outraged! I have a right to be, just like muslims are outraged about not wearing hijab!

Do whatever you want. You have the right to whine. So do I have the right to ignore you.

yes i have the right to whine just like muslims are about their choice of clothes  

 

Originally posted by candid

Oh, Candid, get lost.  Nobody here agrees with what you said. 

And I don't care, what you think. If you agree with me good for you. Otherwise, its your problem.

BTW, if no one disagrees with what the other says, then perhaps we don't need a discussion forum.

wow  your attitude is really something  

You should care Candid but i guess you don't, I guess you don't care what kind of projection you put onto islam and muslims, you want people to know what islam is, well i hope they do not learn from you. 

~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~
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Quote peacemaker Replybullet Posted: 26 October 2006 at 5:43am

Assalamu Alaikum,

From islamic point of view, modest dress code has many benefits including the fact that the honour and dignity of women could be protected to a much higher degree. I don’t mean that rape could not happen when one is dressed modestly, but yes, it could be eliminated or minimized.

At the same time, rapist is a rapist, no matter who is the victim whether one wears modest dress code or not. And rapist should be punished, and in fact, in Islam, rape and adultery are serious offenses.

I am happy that Shaikh apologized, and hope that it would calm down the situation .

I also hope that this event will not be used for political gains. Australian PM joined hands with war party, against the wish of millions of Australians, and is, therefore, responsible for the deaths of hundreds and thousands of people in the ongoing genocide in the Muslim lands; his hands are full of blood.

Finally, I have noticed that there has been many violations of guidelines in this thread. Please read guidelines before posting anything further.

Peace

Then which of the favours of your Lord will ye deny?
Qur'an 55:13
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Quote candid Replybullet Posted: 26 October 2006 at 8:48pm

Originally posted by Angel

Candid did you know that this sheik was also addressing muslim women, in no where written or on tv or by the shiek himself was there a distinction between Australian non muslim women and Australian muslim women??

And I also meant unchaste women, Muslim or non-muslim, it does not matter to me. If the Sheikh would have made the similar comments about nuns I would have opposed him.

And yes, if you continue to attack me personally, I can also counter-attack and consequently, the direction of discussion/arguement in this thread will get diverted. So, I suggest  you restrain yourself.

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Quote candid Replybullet Posted: 26 October 2006 at 8:57pm
Originally posted by Angel

Originally posted by candid

Oh, Candid, get lost.  Nobody here agrees with what you said. 

And I don't care, what you think. If you agree with me good for you. Otherwise, its your problem.

BTW, if no one disagrees with what the other says, then perhaps we don't need a discussion forum.

wow  your attitude is really something  

You should care Candid but i guess you don't, I guess you don't care what kind of projection you put onto islam and muslims, you want people to know what islam is, well i hope they do not learn from you. 

Really?? Well, there are certain values which we cannot compromise upon irrespective of what you think of us. I think Muslim should stop caring about what others say and do what they think is right. If we need to make changes we should do it independently of what others tell us to do. No amount of a  appeasement or compromises can satisfy the non-muslims until we foresake our religion.

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Quote Sign*Reader Replybullet Posted: 27 October 2006 at 12:58am
Originally posted by candid

Originally posted by Angel

Originally posted by candid

Oh, Candid, get lost.  Nobody here agrees with what you said. 

And I don't care, what you think. If you agree with me good for you. Otherwise, its your problem.

BTW, if no one disagrees with what the other says, then perhaps we don't need a discussion forum.

wow  your attitude is really something  

You should care Candid but i guess you don't, I guess you don't care what kind of projection you put onto islam and muslims, you want people to know what islam is, well i hope they do not learn from you. 

Really?? Well, there are certain values which we cannot compromise upon irrespective of what you think of us. I think Muslim should stop caring about what others say and do what they think is right. If we need to make changes we should do it independently of what others tell us to do. No amount of a  appeasement or compromises can satisfy the non-muslims until we foresake our religion.


What certain values ? be more specific--we(who R we) you are talking about? If you are speaking for a group you need to say which one, so your authority is weighted & recognized accordingly. If you are speaking for yourself, and itching for big time argument with sister herjihad on this issue, think again you are in for a surprise. There will be more votes with her than with you. So better behave

IMHO the Sheikh injecting into on this rotten gang rape scenarios  indicates that how messed up priorities of the Muslims' involved in  general and this sheikh in particular are?

So you think these gang bangers are your Muslims brothers-- Not mine! What would you do when they end up in a slammer?
Originally posted by candid

I think Muslim should stop caring about what others say and do what they think is right.

Can you describe what is right in your mind, you don't come out as caring individual btw
Originally posted by candid

If we need to make changes we should do it independently of what others tell us to do.

What changes do you have in mind and would you imlement? can you count some independent Muslims places for me to be practical and sincere?
And also I am sorry if these rapist alley CATS were Sheikh's flock-- nothing to be proud off!!
The Muslims are fighting the trivial battles likes of this and Niqab's in England while the significant issues such as educational/economic/political independence of Muslim people in Muslim countries are being overlooked all over.
Originally posted by candid

No amount of a  appeasement or compromises can satisfy the non-muslims until we foresake our religion

Seems like you haven't read the history and are behind the curve, I think Muslim forsook it long ago and paid the price in defeat of Muslim Caliphate and rest in colonial bondage. Now they are trying to crawl  back from the hole of bondage in scatter brained fashion and it is not working yet. And for sure they are not going anywhere with the issues like this thread. Wake up n smell coffee
Salam
Kismet Domino: Faith/Courage/Liberty/Abundance/Selfishness/Immorality/Apathy/Bondage or extinction.
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