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Angel
 
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Quote Angel Replybullet Topic: Australian PM condemns sheik’s sermon
    Posted: 25 October 2006 at 10:26pm
PM condemns sheik's sex sermon
Elicia Murray
October 26, 2006 - 3:02PM
 

Prime Minister John Howard today condemned remarks by a senior Islamic cleric likening immodestly dressed women to meat that attracted cats.

"They are appalling and reprehensible comments," Mr Howard told reporters on a drought inspection tour of western NSW.

"They are quite out of touch with contemporary values in Australia.

"The idea that women are to blame for rapes is preposterous.

"I not only reject the comments, I condemn them unconditionally."

Sheik Taj el-Din al Hilaly's reported comments, made in a Ramadan sermon, compared women who wore make-up and dressed immodestly to meat that attracted cats.

He blamed women who "sway suggestively" and who wore make-up and no hijab (Islamic scarf) for sexual attacks.

"If you take out uncovered meat and place it outside on the street, or in the garden or in the park, or in the backyard without a cover, and the cats come and eat it ... whose fault is it, the cats or the uncovered meat?" he said.

"The uncovered meat is the problem.

"If she was in her room, in her home, in her hijab, no problem would have occurred."

Mr Howard said the sheik's remarks clearly related to a "particularly appalling" rape trial in Sydney.

Asked if the sheik should resign, Mr Howard replied: "It's not for me to say what position he should hold in the Islamic faith.

"But it is for me as Prime Minister to say I totally reject the notion that the way in which women dress and deport themselves can in any way be used as a semblance of justification for rape."

A Muslim leader has likened the comments to Pope Benedict XVI's recent speech about Islam that provoked violent street protests.

The former chairman of the Prime Minister's Muslim Community Reference Group, Ameer Ali, said the comments were similar to those in a speech which the Pope gave last month in which he quoted a 14th-century emperor regarding Muslims. The Pope later apologised.

"The Pope used an inappropriate quotation and people said he should be removed from the papacy and something inappropriate has happened here also," Dr Ali told smh.com.au.

"It's unfortunate that he used this colourful terminology to describe the dangers in dressing provocatively."

However, he said the cleric did not condone rape and Australian women should not be insulted.

Other Muslim leaders have called on the sheik to clarify his comments, which a newspaper report said were delivered in a Ramadan sermon to 500 worshippers in Sydney last month.

The cleric said that he meant to refer to only prostitutes as meat, and not any scantily clad woman without a hijab.

The Islamic Council of NSW dubbed the comments as "un-Islamic, un-Australian and unacceptable".

A spokesman for the council, Ali Roude, today said he was "astonished" at Sheik al Hilaly's comments, saying he "had failed both himself and the Muslim community".

"While we respect the rights of any Australian citizen to freedom of speech, there is a further responsibility upon our civic leaders, be they religious, political or bureaucratic, to offer appropriate guidance to the people under their care," Mr Roude said.

"The comments widely reported today do no such thing."

Sheik al Hilaly had seriously misrepresented the teachings of Islam in his comments, which were offensive to both sexes, Mr Roude said.

The comments also showed a deep misunderstanding of rape and personal violence, which Mr Roude described as "crimes of power".

"As a father, brother and son myself, I take offence at the portrayal of both men and women in the alleged published comments."

Mr Roude said he had known Sheik al Hilaly for many years and was deeply disappointed he had made the remarks, which were in no way shared or endorsed by the council.

Former secretary of the Australian Federation of Islamic Councils Shujat Mantoo said the sheik was "probably out of line", but he defended his right to stay in Australia.

"There would be many people like [the sheik] who uphold those views, and there would be among mainstream Christians, but we don't simply deport them. We educate them," Mr Mantoo said.

The sheik's comments have drawn strong criticism from some federal politicians and the federal Sex Discrimination Commissioner Pru Goward.

"It is incitement to a crime. Young Muslim men who now rape women can cite this in court, can quote this man ... their leader in court," she told the Nine Network.

"It's time we stopped just saying he should apologise. It is time the Islamic community did more than say they were horrified. I think it is time he left."

NSW Premier Morris Iemma denounced the sheik for his "outrageous" comments and called on the Muslim community to take action against him.

"He ought to be held account for his comments," Mr Iemma said. "What's in the papers this morning are offensive and outrageous and ought to be condemned and retracted. He does not have a flash record as far as these sorts of statements."

Treasurer Peter Costello branded the comments "totally unacceptable".

He called for Muslim leaders to condemn the comments, disassociate themselves from them, and pull their leader into line.

The Treasurer said comparing women to uncovered meat invited people to treat them in a degrading and dehumanising way.

He said the leaders of Catholic and the Anglican churches in Australia would never make such a comment.

"This is totally unacceptable. This is comparing women to uncovered meat," Mr Costello told the Seven Network.

"We really need political leaders to speak out against it.

"But I hope that the moderate Muslim leaders will speak out today and condemn these comments.

"Make it clear to Muslims that this is not the view of Islam and that they will really take some kind of action to disassociate themselves from the comments which Sheik al Hilaly has made.

"And take some action to try and pull him into line."

Mr Costello said that, in light of a series of Sydney gang rapes in 2000 committed by young Muslim men, the sheik's message was dangerous because it seemed to justify rape.

"If you have a significant religious leader like this preaching to a flock in a situation where we have had gang rapes, in a way that seems to make it justifiable, or at least lighten the dehumanising and degrading extent of the offence, then people that listen to that kind of comment can get the wrong idea.

"They can actually think that it is not as bad as it is."

- with AAP

http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/sheik-blasted-for-sex-se rmon/2006/10/26/1161749218913.html?page=fullpage#contentSwap 3

~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~
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ak_m_f
 
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Quote ak_m_f Replybullet Posted: 25 October 2006 at 10:39pm
why isnt anyone talking about camp jesus ?

Edited by ak_m_f
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Quote candid Replybullet Posted: 25 October 2006 at 10:52pm
What's the big deal, anyway? Since when did Western women start caring about their modesty. How does it matter if their "modesty" is outraged? I bet they liked getting raped.
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Quote Angel Replybullet Posted: 25 October 2006 at 11:29pm

Originally posted by candid

What's the big deal, anyway? Since when did Western women start caring about their modesty. How does it matter if their "modesty" is outraged? I bet they liked getting raped.

HOW DARE YOU?????  

NO ONE LIKES GETTING RAPED WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU GOING ON ABOUT!

Attitdues like yours Candid is why non muslims continue with misunderstanding about islam and continue to hate it!

How does it matter if their modesty is outraged???, it matters like the hijab!

you're unbelievable i cannot believe what you said but then again it seems it is only muslims (well some) that make such a remark! I haven't come across any other group of people who makes these.

Yes I am outraged! I have a right to be, just like muslims are outraged about not wearing hijab!



Edited by Angel
~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~
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Quote ak_m_f Replybullet Posted: 25 October 2006 at 11:47pm
maybe he meant: Dont put yourself in compromising position.

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Quote candid Replybullet Posted: 26 October 2006 at 12:56am
Originally posted by Angel

Originally posted by candid

What's the big deal, anyway? Since when did Western women start caring about their modesty. How does it matter if their "modesty" is outraged? I bet they liked getting raped.

HOW DARE YOU?????  

NO ONE LIKES GETTING RAPED WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU GOING ON ABOUT!

Attitdues like yours Candid is why non muslims continue with misunderstanding about islam and continue to hate it!

How does it matter if their modesty is outraged???, it matters like the hijab!

you're unbelievable i cannot believe what you said but then again it seems it is only muslims (well some) that make such a remark! I haven't come across any other group of people who makes these.

Hahahahahahahaha

What BS? what it has to do with my being Muslim. Historically, christians/westerners have been (and continue to be) lot more barbaric and murderous than the Muslims. If that's the reason you (and other non-muslims) claim to hate Islam that is an outright lie. Its just a pretext to cover your xenophobia.

American soldiers have a record of the indulging in such activities wherever U.S bases have been established. An american soldier was jailed for just 32 months for raping a japenese women.By the way, why the disparity in punishment of non-muslim and muslim rapists in Australia/United States?

I think that only chaste women can be emotionally hurted through rape. I thought it won't matter to Australian women getting raped because they are unchaste anyway. How can their "modesty" be possibly outraged? They themselves don't value it.

 



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Quote herjihad Replybullet Posted: 26 October 2006 at 2:59am

Salaams and Bismillah,

Well, I'd like to hear what the people at the Austrailian mosque who heard this are saying.

His metaphor was incorrect and just a really bad metaphor all around.  It seems to reveal that he believes that if a woman is scantily dressed, it is an obvious and definite consequence that she be attacked.  The reality is that women are attacked no matter what we wear.  An aggressive, violent person is that way because they are.  Maybe it was their repressive upbringing.  Maybe not.

Oh, Candid, get lost.  Nobody here agrees with what you said. 

Ak -- elaborate please.  Jesus camp?  It sounds like a fundamentalist Christian gathering.

I would vote him out, but I'm not in that congregation.



Edited by herjihad
Al-Hamdulillah (From a Married Muslimah) La Howla Wa La Quwata Illa BiLLah - There is no Effort or Power except with Allah's Will.
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Quote candid Replybullet Posted: 26 October 2006 at 3:34am

Oh, Candid, get lost.  Nobody here agrees with what you said. 

And I don't care, what you think. If you agree with me good for you. Otherwise, its your problem.

BTW, if no one disagrees with what the other says, then perhaps we don't need a discussion forum.



Edited by candid
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