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Message Icon Topic: A question on the Quran(Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post Reply Post New Topic
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BMZ
 
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bullet Posted: 18 October 2006 at 10:35am

Sawtul Khilafah,

I can't describe the beauty of the language of Qur'aan in the Meccan Arabic dialect.

Firstly, I was responding to the nonsensical post. Secondly I explained very clearly what the verse meant in real Arabic.

When God Almighty says "be" that is a Command of God and it is done! We use "kun, faya-kun" and the Bible describes it as "God said, 'let there be....". The word Kalimah is in that verse of Qur'aan.

The "word" belongs to all Semitic languages, Hebrew, Aramaic and Arabic and people made God out of it!  Adam was a word too, so was Abraham, so was Ismaeel, so was Issac, so was Judah (not one of my favourites)  and so was John (Yahya). It was the thought by God to create those people.

It's too late in the night now and good night from my side.

Salaams

BMZ

 

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damaninchrist
 
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bullet Posted: 18 October 2006 at 6:42pm

Originally posted by Cyril



There is apparently no break between "bikalimatin minhu" and "smuhu l-masHu".

The article "al" of masH looses its hamza with its "a" sound because of the "u" from smuhu.
It is shown in the Arabic script by the waSlah (=liaison) on top of the alif.

The same happens between the "u" of minhu and smu which has lost its initial hamza and "i" because of the "u" of hu.
Again it is shown by a waSlah on top of the alif of ism.

It could be "bikalimatin minhu smuh l-masH".

But as the Quran says smuhu so the pronoun must refer to the masculine name around which is al-masH.

I don't think it is a mistake. The choice was between smuh refering to al-kalimah or smuhu refering to al-masH. It is the second option which is written.

Strangely enough there is a similar "error" in the Arabic Gospel of John (1:1) where it says: "fil-bad'i kna (instead of knati) l-kalimatu".

If we want to talk grammar, pronouns like "hou" and "ha" don't refer to terms after them.

You are basically saying that "ismou l masee7ou houwa l masee7ou" instead of "ismou l kalima houwa l masee7ou". Which statement makes sense?

And about the Bible in Arabic, I never claimed it's perfect in Arabic.

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damaninchrist
 
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bullet Posted: 18 October 2006 at 6:46pm
Originally posted by bmzsp

Apple Pie, oops, I mean Damanchrist,

From you: "Here, let me elaborate for the Arabic speaking people"

Elaborating for the Arabic-speaking people?   

Let me first edit your numerics within the translation of the verse!

"Iz kalatil-malaikato 'ya maryamo innal-laha yobash-shirokay bikalimatin minho-smohul-maseeho ee-sab-no maryama', wajeehan feed-dunya walakhirati wa minal-mukar-rabeena................."

Ismohu means whose name was or whose name is or whose name will be, simply his name.

The verse is not discussing the gender of the word or kalima.

"Innallaha yobashshirokay baykalimatum-minho" does NOT really mean "Surely God gives you the good news of a word from Him". That is the word-to-word translation. The nessage to Maryam simply means "O' Maryam, God gives you the good news of a son". That is all to that.

From you: "Notice the bolded part

hou is erroneously a masculine pronoun  when it should be feminine  since it's referring to "kalima" which is  feminine not masculine."

If Jesus, essabno maryama were a girl, it would not have been ismo-hu. Since Jesus was Mary's male child, we cannot say that her name was Jesus, the son of Mary.   

From you: "Oh, and no cheap replies, like "the Quran can never have grammar mistakes" because, unlike you, I don't assume that the Quran is perfect and that the Quran is exactly the same as the original. So spare me such replies, and just refute my point."

I am sure you would consider this scholarly reply proper in response to your cheap comments!  

Good Night from Singapore.

BMZ

 

BMZ, I still remember testing your knowledge in Arabic grammar by asking you three simple questions ... you did not post since then!

Here's one question for you here:

Are you good at "i3rab"?

If so, do this one for me ...

Zahaba l waladou ila l madrasati

3reble kilmet "zahaba" then "waladou" then "madrasati"

Yalla ya shattour



Edited by damaninchrist
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damaninchrist
 
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bullet Posted: 18 October 2006 at 7:01pm
Originally posted by bmzsp

Apple Pie, oops, I mean Damanchrist,

From you: "Here, let me elaborate for the Arabic speaking people"

Elaborating for the Arabic-speaking people?   

Let me first edit your numerics within the translation of the verse!

"Iz kalatil-malaikato 'ya maryamo innal-laha yobash-shirokay bikalimatin minho-smohul-maseeho ee-sab-no maryama', wajeehan feed-dunya walakhirati wa minal-mukar-rabeena................."

Ismohu means whose name was or whose name is or whose name will be, simply his name.

The verse is not discussing the gender of the word or kalima.

The "hou" is referring to the term before it ... that's what we're discussing.

"Innallaha yobashshirokay baykalimatum-minho" does NOT really mean "Surely God gives you the good news of a word from Him". That is the word-to-word translation. The nessage to Maryam simply means "O' Maryam, God gives you the good news of a son". That is all to that.

Oh, really? So all English translations of the Quran are wrong. Assuming you're right, the grammar is still wrong.

From you: "Notice the bolded part

hou is erroneously a masculine pronoun  when it should be feminine  since it's referring to "kalima" which is  feminine not masculine."

If Jesus, essabno maryama were a girl, it would not have been ismo-hu. Since Jesus was Mary's male child, we cannot say that her name was Jesus, the son of Mary.   

Obviously, you don't know grammar, then.

"Nafs" is a feminine term than can describe a male.

"Zawj" (when it means mate) is a masculine term that can describe a female.

 

Have fun learning

JIG

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BMZ
 
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bullet Posted: 18 October 2006 at 9:06pm

Apple Pie,

Don't waste my precious time or that of others', please. Do this on that Christian channel and have fun.  I will see you there in April 2007, when I will be teaching the Bible to the Christian friends there.

BMZ

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damaninchrist
 
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bullet Posted: 18 October 2006 at 9:43pm
Originally posted by bmzsp

Apple Pie,

Don't waste my precious time or that of others', please. Do this on that Christian channel and have fun.  I will see you there in April 2007, when I will be teaching the Bible to the Christian friends there.

BMZ

Actually, I am not Apple Pie.

Apple Pie or not, we always own you in Arabic.

Don't forget that you admitted yourself that you're not an Arab boy, while I am one.

JIG



Edited by damaninchrist
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Cyril
 
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bullet Posted: 19 October 2006 at 1:40am
Originally posted by damaninchrist


If we want to talk grammar, pronouns like "hou" and "ha" don't refer to terms after them.

That is a strange statement. Pronouns refer to what is logically related to them whatever their place.

When you say "ismuhu dawd" (his name (is) Dawd) you notice that the pronoun "hu" cannot relate to a preceding word as the sentence begins with ism.

You are basically saying that "ismou l masee7ou houwa l masee7ou" instead of "ismou l kalima houwa l masee7ou". Which statement makes sense?

You must not say ismu l-masHu (sorry I don't use your half English half French transcription) but ismu l-masHi (construct state).
I think that both statements make sense.
I would say ismu l-kalimati instead of ismu l-kalima.

And about the Bible in Arabic, I never claimed it's perfect in Arabic.

According to what I found in a detailed grammar of Classical Arabic there is no mistake in John 1:1.

 




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fatima
 
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bullet Posted: 19 October 2006 at 4:11am

Bismillah irrahman irrahim

I was going to ask you exact word for, 'whose, it, this' in arabic but seeing you are a professional in this circle. I will leave you to burn in this hatred of yours and yes you are arab and can speak arabic but what good has it done to you? 'And when they hear idle talk they turn aside from it and say: We shall have our deeds and you shall have your deeds; peace be on you, we do not desire the ignorant' (28:55).

 

Say: (O Muhammad) If you love Allah, then follow me, Allah will love you and forgive you your faults, and Allah is Forgiving, MercifuL
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