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Interfaith Dialogue
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Antony-Islah
 
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Quote Antony-Islah Replybullet Topic: A comparative between.......
    Posted: 16 October 2006 at 12:19pm

 

A comparative between Iesa {SAW} and Muhammad {SAW} showing that the Bestowal belongs to God/Allah alone, and hence illustrating neither possessed Divine like powers.     

 

Sahih Al-Bukhari - Volume 1, Book 3, Number 71:

Narrated Muawiya:

I heard Allah's Apostle saying, "If Allah wants to do good to a person, He makes him comprehend the religion. I am just a distributor, but the grant is from Allah. (And remember) that this nation (true Muslims) will keep on following Allah's teachings strictly and they will not be harmed by any one going on a different path till Allah's order (Day of Judgment) is established."    

 

The Gospel

Mark 5

 

25: And a certain woman, which had an issue of blood twelve years,

26: And had suffered many things of many physicians, and had spent all that she had, and was nothing bettered, but rather grew worse,

27: When she had heard of Jesus, came in the press behind, and touched his garment.

28: For she said, If I may touch but his clothes, I shall be whole.

29: And straightway the fountain of her blood was dried up; and she felt in her body that she was healed of that plague.

30: And Jesus, immediately knowing in himself that virtue had gone out of him, turned about in the press, and said, Who touched my clothes?

31: And his disciples said unto him, Thou seest the multitude thronging thee, and sayest thou, Who touched me?

32: And he looked round about to see her that had done this thing.

33: But the woman fearing and trembling, knowing what was done in her, came and fell down before him, and told him all the truth.

34: And he said unto her, Daughter, thy faith hath made thee whole; go in peace, and be whole of thy plague.

 

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UmmTaaha
 
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Quote UmmTaaha Replybullet Posted: 17 October 2006 at 12:27am

It would have been fairer if you explained your point in your words as well, after the quotes.

If you ellude on the lines Jesus (as) had the power to make someone''s faith whole, without the will and power of God almightly, then this is not the position of Muslims.

We rather believe a blessing, barakah, inpiration, mercy etc that one recieves from any pious person, and that which was recieved by the holy prophet (saw) is through the will and power of Allah. He (saw) was an instument, a tool by God, to send mercy and blessings to mankind. He did not have a power on his own. This understanding comes from the concept of true slavehood (of all creation , excluding none) to Allah.

All His creation are His slaves, be they prophets or common folk. and none has power except through the will and power of allah (la haula wa la quwata illa billah). Some He  distinguished from others. Thus mankind witnessed the miracles that proceeded from his chosen prophets (as), but even those prophets did not display any miracle without the will/permission of Allah.

When Musa (as) threw his staff and became a snake, or when Isa (as) blew the spirit into the bird of when Muhammad (saw) split the moon, this all happened because Allah made it possible.

 

 

 

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Antony-Islah
 
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Quote Antony-Islah Replybullet Posted: 17 October 2006 at 6:22am

please excuse me,

i don't know if i have missed something, but the fact that passage mentions that the woman touched Iesa's {SAW} garment and was healed without Iesa's 'will', and the fact that a multitude was 'thronging' against him (and hence touching him, without presumably been healed, or gaining any other perceivable benefit), and the fact that i highlighted the verse were Iesa {SAW} states, “Daughter, thy faith had made thee whole”, and hence he admits it was not him who healed but, God as a result of the woman’s faith in Him {SWT}….. i thought would have been enough.

i forgive you for not understanding the passage….. please excuse me for i had not made the above clear enough.

 

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Quote Antony-Islah Replybullet Posted: 17 October 2006 at 6:44am

By the way, I purposefully use - Sallallahu Alayhi wa Salaam - after Iesa’s name as well, because the Qur’an tells me not to make a distinction between the Prophet’s, and the hadith shows me why I should make no distinction.   

 

 

Holy Qur’an

Surat An-Nisâ'

 

152. And those who believe in Allâh and His Messengers and make no distinction between any of them (Messengers), We shall give them their rewards, and Allâh is Ever Oft­Forgiving, Most Merciful.

 

Holy Qur’an

Surat Al-Baqarah

 

285. The Messenger (Muhammad SAW) believes in what has been sent down to him from his Lord, and (so do) the believers. Each one believes in Allâh, His Angels, His Books, and His Messengers. They say, "We make no distinction between one another of His Messengers" - and they say, "We hear, and we obey. (We seek) Your Forgiveness, our Lord, and to You is the return (of all)."

 

 

'The parable of me in relation to the Prophets who came before me is that of a man who built a house beautifully and well, except that one brick in its corner was missing. The people went around it and wondered at its beauty, but said: "If only that brick were put in its place!" I am that brick, and I am the last of the Prophets.' [Sahih Al-Bukhari]

 

 

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Quote UmmTaaha Replybullet Posted: 17 October 2006 at 9:16pm

 

I certainly did not understand the passage before. Thank you for making it clear.

If you do not post your comments with the passages, it may be hard for others to decipher since many of us are not familiar with the Bible.

I began to respond to your notes, since you were not able to find any audiance. Insha allah if you post your comments alongside, it will be easier to have a dialogue.

We do not make distinction between prophets. However, it is incumbent on a muslim, when their prophet is mentioned, so send salat-o-salam on him (saw). This means on the mention of him, we pray to allah, so send blessings on him (saw), which we are not required to do in the same way to other prophets. It is also recorded in many hadith that when a muslim sends salat-o-salam on his prophet (saw), allah sends ten blessings on this person. In another hadith it is said that most niggardly of the ppl is he, who does not send salat-o-salam on the prophet, upon his mention.

sallallahu alaihe wassallam is the shortest form of salat-o-salam. And there are several others.

 

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Quote Antony-Islah Replybullet Posted: 20 October 2006 at 1:55pm

thank you again for the reply

Holy Qur’an

Surah 33 - Al­Ahzâb

 

 

56. Allâh sends His Salât (Graces, Honours, Blessings, Mercy, etc.) on the Prophet (Muhammad SAW) and also His angels too (ask Allâh to bless and forgive him). O you who believe! Send your Salât[] on (ask Allâh to bless) him, and greet him with the Islâmic way of greeting (i.e. As­Salâmu 'Alaikum).

 

 

 

Sahl ibn Sa`d (radi allahu 'anhu) narrates: Allah's Messenger (sallallahu 'alaihi wasalam) came out and met Abu Talha. The latter rose and went to him saying: "My father and mother be sacrificed for you, O Messenger of Allah! I see joy and delight in your countenance?" The Prophet (sallallahu 'alaihi wasallam) said: "Yes, for Gabriel has just come to me saying: O Muhammad, whoever among your Community invokes blessings upon you once, Allah records for Him ten meritorious deeds, erases from his register ten evil deeds, and raises him ten degrees because of it." (al-Sakhawi, al-Qawl al-badi` p. 107., al-Sakhawi said: "Our shaykh (Ibn Hajar) graded it hasan without doubt.")

 

 

 

Abu Mas`ud Al-Badri said: Once the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) came to us while we were in the gathering of Sa`d ibn `Ubadah. Hence Bishr ibn Sa`d asked him, “O Messenger of Allah! Almighty Allah has enjoined us to send blessings on you, then how to do so?” The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) kept silent until we wished he had not asked him. Then he said, “Say: O Allah! Send Your mercy on Muhammad and on the family of Muhammad, as You sent Your mercy on the family of Ibrahim; and send Your blessings on Muhammad and on the family of Muhammad, as You sent Your blessings on the family of Ibrahim. Among all the worlds, You are Most Praiseworthy, Most Glorious.” The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) continued, “As for the way of extending salam (greetings), it is as you know.’’

 



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Quote Bismarck Replybullet Posted: 02 November 2006 at 10:23pm
I am confused, how do you "make no distinctions" by making distinctions?

I read it this way:

  1. I am to make no distinctions between Prophets (HQ 2:285, 4:152).

  2. I am to send Sallat upon the Prophet Muhammd, peace be upon
    him
    . (HQ 33:56)

  3. When I earnestly do so, Almighty Allah credits me 10 good deeds,
    forgives 10 bad deeds, and raises me 10 degrees (Sahl ibn Sa`d (radi
    allahu 'anhu))



Therefore:

  • I am to send Sallat upon all Prophets, like Moses, peace be
    upon him
    , and Joel, peace be upon him, and Jeremiah, peace be
    upon him
    , and Isaiah, peace be upon him, and Elijah, peace be
    upon him
    , and Elisha, peace be upon him, and the Messiah,
    peace be upon him.

  • Whenever I earnestly send Sallat upon any of God's
    Prophets, Almighty Allah credits me with 10 good deeds, forgives 10 evil
    deeds, and raises me 10 degrees



In the following quote:

Abu Mas`ud Al-Badri said: Once the Prophet (peace and blessings
be upon him) came to us while we were in the gathering of Sa`d ibn
`Ubadah. Hence Bishr ibn Sa`d asked him, “O Messenger of Allah!
Almighty Allah has enjoined us to send blessings on you, then how to do
so?” The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) kept silent until
we wished he had not asked him.
Then he said, “Say: O Allah! Send
Your mercy on Muhammad and on the family of Muhammad, as You sent
Your mercy on the family of Ibrahim; and send Your blessings on
Muhammad and on the family of Muhammad, as You sent Your blessings
on the family of Ibrahim. Among all the worlds, You are Most
Praiseworthy, Most Glorious.”
The Prophet (peace and blessings be
upon him) continued, “As for the way of extending salam (greetings), it is
as you know.’’


I interpret the long silence of the Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon
him, as a clear sign of humility. For, Bishr ibn Sa`d had just asked the
Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, how he should be praised. Such
could easily have been a trial and temptation for the Prophet Muhammad,
peace be upon him. Weaker men might have said, "Uhm, hey, that's a
really good question, Bishr! Well, uhm, you should praise me endlessly
and shower me with glory and honor, especially in front of all the fine
ladies!" However, the Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, remained
silent and did not answer the question for so long that his followers felt
very awkward. Only then could the Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon
him, answer their question without exploiting their esteem for him.

Furthermore, the Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, clearly tells his
followers to address Almighty Allah, "Say: O Allah! Send your mercy on
Muhammad and on the family of Muhammad, as You sent Your mercy on
the family of Ibrahim; and send Your blessings on Muhammad and on the
family of Muhammad, as You sent Your blessings on the family of
Ibrahim." Therefore, the closing phrase, "Among all the worlds, You are
Most Praiseworthy, Most Glorious" is also directed towards
Almighty Allah. Indeed, it is written:

  • And they ill-treated them for no other reason than that they
    believed in God, Exalted in Power, Worthy of all Praise!
    (HQ 85:8)


That is, only Almighty God should be praised. All thanks be to Allah,
from whom come all things, including the Prophets, peace be upon them.
Yet we are still to wish peace upon all the Prophets for living Righteously
and hearing and heeding God's Will.

In other words, I do not understand the words of Abu Mas'ud Al-Badri to
mean that we should especially praise the Prophet Muhammad, peace be
upon him, but rather Almighty Allah.

The Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, is to be sent Sallat,
and so are all the other Prophets, peace be upon them, as well. Almighty
Allah alone merits our praises.
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Quote Bismarck Replybullet Posted: 02 November 2006 at 10:56pm
Greetings Antony-Isaiah,

This point, that Belief leads to healing, is also made in:

Mark 6
1 And he went out thence and came to his own country, and his disciples
follow him.
2 And when sabbath was come he began to teach in the synagogue, and
many hearing were amazed, saying, Whence [has] this [man] these things?
and what [is] the wisdom that is given to him, and such works of power
are done by his hands?
3 Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, and brother of James, and
Joses, and Judas, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And
they were offended in him.
4 But Jesus said to them, A prophet is not despised save in his own
country, and among [his] kinsmen, and in his own house.
5 And he could not do any work of power there, save that laying his
hands on a few infirm persons he healed [them].
6 And he wondered because of their unbelief. And he went round
the villages in a circuit, teaching.

Here, because of the villagers' unBelief, the Messiah could do not
miracles. Much the same occurs in Mark 5, when after the Messiah heals
the wild-man afflicted with a Legion of demons, the townspeople ask the
Messiah to depart their country. Your Belief, or lack thereof, is the
determining factor for you, it would seem -- although not to detract that
all things, including your salvation, come ultimately from Almighty Allah
by His Boundless Grace.
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