Active TopicsActive Topics  Display List of Forum MembersMemberlist  CalendarCalendar  Search The ForumSearch  HelpHelp
  RegisterRegister  LoginLogin  Old ForumOld Forum  Twitter  Facebook
Advertisement:
         

Interfaith Dialogue
 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : Religion - Islam : Interfaith Dialogue
Message Icon Topic: Ishmael & Ishaq Post Reply Post New Topic
Author Message
Yusef Yahya
 
Starter
Starter


Joined: 14 October 2006
Location: Saudi Arabia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1
Quote Yusef Yahya Replybullet Topic: Ishmael & Ishaq
    Posted: 14 October 2006 at 10:46am

Assalam'alikum..  can u tell me in shorted details(with some trusted links..islamic & nonIslamic if possible) about what should corrected in minds of christians about relation between these 2 noble prophets?,,   & that Abraham is father of jews.. & the land is for them forever,,God gives them..etc  

thanx..

IP IP Logged
air_one
 
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: 23 September 2006
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 35
Quote air_one Replybullet Posted: 15 October 2006 at 4:10am
Well from the top of my head i can say that both Ismail (AS) and Ishaq (AS) are brothers. They share the same father Ibrahim (AS) but they had different mothers.

The children of israel (jews) came from Ishaq. Allah promised them the land (holy land) as long as they were believers.

Thats all i know :P

Someone pls correct me if im wrong :)
IP IP Logged
DavidC
 
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar

Joined: 20 September 2001
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2211
Quote DavidC Replybullet Posted: 15 October 2006 at 7:06am
Ishmael is written out of Genesis.  He is never referred to by name after the binding of Isaac.

It is also worth noting that the theme of the second son receiving the blessing occurs again with Isaac's sons Esau and Jacob.
David C.
IP IP Logged
BMZ
 
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar

Joined: 03 April 2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1852
Quote BMZ Replybullet Posted: 15 October 2006 at 8:49am

Hi David,

Yes, Ishmael is written off. Upto that period, it was either the boy from the slave woman or the boy from the free woman.

What surprises me is the theme of the second son receiving the blessing occured to the twins of Issac and Rebeka. Specially after Jacob gave a bowl of red bean soup to his starving brother on condition that he gave up his birth right to let him be the First born of Issac. Remember that Essau came out first, followed by Jacob who was clinging onto Essau's heels.

What is your view about this, David?

BMZ

IP IP Logged
DavidC
 
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar

Joined: 20 September 2001
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2211
Quote DavidC Replybullet Posted: 16 October 2006 at 4:25am
The theme of the barren woman and the younger son occurs three times during Genesis if you include Joseph.

Both the woman and the younger son are symbolic of Israel. The younger son gets a comeuppance in all three. Isaac has his blessing stolen, Jacob is tricked into marrying Leah instead of Rachel, and Joseph is sold into slavery.

I think the point is that God intervened directly to assist in the success of Israel, and although God requires justice he also extends his grace towards sinners.
David C.
IP IP Logged
Bismarck
 
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 01 March 2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 286
Quote Bismarck Replybullet Posted: 19 October 2006 at 11:28pm
DC, you are wrong when you say, "Ishmael is never referred to by name
after the binding of Isaac (Gen 22). For in Genesis 25 we read:

Genesis 25:9
His sons Isaac and Ishmael buried him in the cave of
Machpelah near Mamre, in the field of Ephron son of Zohar the Hittite

Ishmael would in no way have buried his father were he not in Good
Standing w/ Abraham, fully Abraham's recognized son and heir. R. E.
Friedman says as much in his Torah Commentary, that no animosity
is implied between the 2 brothers.

Entering the Documentary Hypothesis into the fray, these words are P. P
was written (down) under Hezekiah c. 700 BCE. Thus, even after the fall
of the Northern Kingdom, there was still no animosity between Ishmael
and Isaac. Any dischord was introduced into the narrative after Hezekiah.

The reason the OT focuses on Isaac is b/c it was the history of Israel, not
Arabia. But, as indicated by P in isolation, in the time of Hezekiah,
the story basically introduced Ishmael, had him receive the covenant of
circumcision (Gen 17) and then he essentially lives happily ever after, at
which point we return to the proto-Israelites. There is no animosity, just
understandable selective focus. Note that P is the best preserved OT
"Gospel", which is why Ezra, as a Priest (P), used P as his "chassis" for his
Redaction (R) c. 450 BCE.
IP IP Logged
DavidC
 
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar

Joined: 20 September 2001
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2211
Quote DavidC Replybullet Posted: 20 October 2006 at 7:32pm
By dingies, Bismark, you are right,  That's what I get for working from memory.
David C.
IP IP Logged
Post Reply Post New Topic
Printable version Printable version

Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

Disclaimer:
The opinions expressed herein contain positions and viewpoints that are not necessarily those of IslamiCity. This forum is offered to stimulate dialogue and discussion in our continuing mission of being an educational organization.
If there is any issue with any of the postings please email to icforum at islamicity.com or if you are a forum's member you can use the report button.

Note: The 99 names of Allah avatars are courtesy of www.arthafez.com

Advertisement:



Sponsored by:
Islamicity Membership Program:
IslamiCity Donation Program  http://www.islamicity.com/Donate
IslamiCity Arabic eLearning http://www.islamiCity.com/ArabAcademy
Complete Domain & Hosting Solutions www.icDomain.com
Home for Muslim Tunes www.icTunes.com
Islamic Video Collections www.islamiTV.com
IslamiCity Marriage Site www.icMarriage.com