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Islamic INTRAfaith Dialogue
 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : Religion - Islam : Islamic INTRAfaith Dialogue
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ZubairH
 
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Quote ZubairH Replybullet Topic: Alcohol
    Posted: 12 October 2006 at 6:17pm
I have been researching this topic for some time now. I have come to the temporary conclusion that the haram or halalness of alcohol is unknown by modern muslims. It is not known wether alcohol is haram or not. Although I can tell you, it is not a big crime whatsoever. Perhaps as big a crime as eating a a bigmac at mcdonalds because your really hungry, although you are not deathly starving, or ill.

Proof:


Transliteration 93: Laysa AAala allatheena amanoo waAAamiloo alssalihati junahun feema taAAimoo itha ma ittaqaw waamanoo waAAamiloo alssalihati thumma ittaqaw waamanoo thumma ittaqaw waahsanoo waAllahu yuhibbu almuhsineena

Yusuf Ali 93: On those who believe and do deeds of righteousness there is no blame for what they ate (in the past), when they guard themselves from evil, and believe, and do deeds of righteousness,- (or) again, guard themselves from evil and believe,- (or) again, guard themselves from evil and do good. For Allah loveth those who do good.

Shakir 93: On those who believe and do good there is no blame for what they eat, when they are careful (of their duty) and believe and do good deeds, then they are careful (of their duty) and believe, then they are careful (of their duty) and do good (to others), and Allah loves those who do good (to others).

Pickthal 93: There shall be no sin (imputed) unto those who believe and do good works for what they may have eaten (in the past). So be mindful of your duty (to Allah), and believe, and do good works; and again: be mindful of your duty, and believe; and once again: be mindful of your duty, and do right. Allah loveth the good.

M. Khan 93: Those who believe and do righteous good deeds, there is no sin on them for what they ate (in the past), if they fear Allah (by keeping away from His forbidden things), and believe and do righteous good deeds, and again fear Allah and believe, and once again fear Allah and do good deeds with Ihsan (perfection). And Allah loves the gooddoers.


I am not sure. Though I am most certainly sure, that muslims who drink alcohol, yet are good muslims in every other way (though they might be in everyway, cause of the alcohol thing) they will most certainly be forgiven by Allah swt. If they are badpeople, then I wouldbelieve they would be punished for doing such a bad thing. Because there are more ways, some not even not preventable. Although alcohol is not preventable even if illegal, there are some ways where it is impossible to stop even one person. How do you stop a person from holding their breath, sniffing glue, or gasoline? They can get just as drunk, and evven more with these. So I think that this issue is not of big concern to muslims as a sin unless they abuse it, as can anything be abused, even food, or breathing. Also, the sunnah and hadiths are good guides but are no means a necessary thing. One can be a complete muslim with just the quran. Although the hadiths and sunnah can help, they can sometimes be innaccurate as they are not written from very good sources and it is a fact for that they have somewhat falsity. I think it is alright to follow any hadiths or sunnah as long as it not contradict the quran. The quran is the ultimate source. Nothing above it, for it is God's word. Sunnah and Hadiths say it is haram, but they are not accurate as the sources or from oral history. If anyone has ever played telephone, you know what Im getting to.So thats what I think. Alcohol should not be banned or illegalized and I do not think alcohol drinking muslims need worry much. It is a minor concern. Allah will still love you ifyou are good.

Allah knows best.
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ZubairH
 
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Quote ZubairH Replybullet Posted: 12 October 2006 at 6:19pm
COmments please. Dont hesitate to disagree. Just dont be rude.
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MOCKBA
 
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Quote MOCKBA Replybullet Posted: 12 October 2006 at 7:12pm

Bismillah

O ye who believe! Intoxicants and gambling, (dedication of) stones, and (divination by) arrows, are an abomination - of Satan's handiwork; Eschew such (abomination) thet ye may prosper. Satan's plan is (but) to excite enmity and hatred between you, with intoxicants and gambling, and hinder you from the remembrance of Allah, and from prayer: will ye not then abstain? (al-Ma'idah, 90-91)

There can be nothing more rude than trying to challenge something that Allah, The Most Great and The Most Glorious, has made very clear in the Qur'an and through the example of the Last Prophet Muhammad, peace and blessings of Allah be upon him

This is the Book, in it is guidance sure, without doubt, to those who fear Allah... (al-Baqara, 2)

So, fear Allah...!

MOCKBA
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Hanan
 
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Quote Hanan Replybullet Posted: 12 October 2006 at 9:37pm

Zubair: I have been researching this topic for some time now.

Are you an alcoholic who’s been looking for justification for his drinking problem, or why are you so interested in making alcohol consumption “all right?“ Has the following ever happened to you: You got into your car and found that someone had stolen the dashboard, the steering wheel, the brake pedal, and even the accelerator. And just when you’re about to call the police you realized that you had climbed in the back seat by mistake?

I have come to the temporary conclusion temporary, does that mean you’re 99% sure? The reason I’m asking is because I’ve seen several other posts in which you were 99% sure. In other words, you don't have 100% knowledge, but we should take your 99% word for it, right? that the haram or halalness of alcohol is unknown by modern muslims.

It is not known wether alcohol is haram or not. Shouldn’t it read: “I don’t known whether alcohol is haram or not,“ unless, of course, you are an Islamic scholar or some other educated person in which case you must provide us with proof that “It is not known wether alcohol is haram or not.”

Although I can tell you, it is not a big crime whatsoever. You only say that because you never got punished for driving drunk, doing a balancing act on Hotel balconies, vomiting on someone’s living room carpet, right?

Perhaps as big a crime as eating a a bigmac at mcdonalds because your really hungry, although you are not deathly starving, or ill. And I was just about to ask again if you are a scholar of some kind, but that‘s not necessary after reading your last sentence.

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UmmTaaha
 
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Quote UmmTaaha Replybullet Posted: 13 October 2006 at 12:38am

Mockba:

Thank you.

Zubair H:

Yusuf Ali 93: On those who believe and do deeds of righteousness there is no blame for what they ate (in the past), when they guard themselves from evil, and believe, and do deeds of righteousness,- (or) again, guard themselves from evil and believe,- (or) again, guard themselves from evil and do good. For Allah loveth those who do good.

What do you think evil is according to the Quran?

Well, as far as anyone with some sound understanding can tell you, anything that goes against the will or command of Allah is an evil. Becasue that which goes against the command of Allah will have one ruin his akhirah, thus it will ultimately prove evil to the person.

Evil does not necessarily have to be murdering someone or being extreemly cruel to a stray dog, for example. One who is in disobedience with allah is actually being evil to his ownself. in fact the untrained nafs, or self/ego is related to as the evil commanding self.

Having considered that, just know the quran does not contradict on itself. There are no discrepencies in it. Therfore, the verse you have sited cannot contradict the verse Mockba has sited. There is clear prohibition for intoxication in Quran, therefore, taking it as long as you dont comit criminal evil acts is not a very good construction of the message of the Holy Quran.

You are actually saying one can consume alcohol as long as s/he is not acting evilly. However the concept in Islam is that if you disobey any command of the Quran you have acted evilly.

Therfore one can eat only of the halal things, and must not act evilly against his own self (the nafs), by way of acting disobediently against the commands of Allah.

 

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rookaiya
 
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Quote rookaiya Replybullet Posted: 13 October 2006 at 2:30am

interesting topic. im no islamic scholar but concur. with my limited knowledge of Islam, i know that even the slightest drop of alcohol is totally forbidden. ive heard some people say that if u drink alcohol u have to wait 40 days before u can perfom any salaah or even fast. in the 40 day period ur body will still be intoxicated thus u may not fast or perform salaah

is anyone else aware of this. please dont ask em for the authority as i dont know it. anyways thats waht i used to hear my granny tell my uncle, while i was still a little girl

also i recall that the local imam always reminds people during Jumah prayers that alcohol is forbidden. he even threatens that he will nto attend the funeral of known alcoholics nor will he perform janaza salaah for them. he hasnt yet acted on this threat though. but one can see how he really abhorrs the act of alcohol consumption by "muslims"

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mariyah
 
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Quote mariyah Replybullet Posted: 13 October 2006 at 7:43pm
Originally posted by MOCKBA

Bismillah

O ye who believe! Intoxicants and gambling, (dedication of) stones, and (divination by) arrows, are an abomination - of Satan's handiwork; Eschew such (abomination) thet ye may prosper. Satan's plan is (but) to excite enmity and hatred between you, with intoxicants and gambling, and hinder you from the remembrance of Allah, and from prayer: will ye not then abstain? (al-Ma'idah, 90-91)

There can be nothing more rude than trying to challenge something that Allah, The Most Great and The Most Glorious, has made very clear in the Qur'an and through the example of the Last Prophet Muhammad, peace and blessings of Allah be upon him

This is the Book, in it is guidance sure, without doubt, to those who fear Allah... (al-Baqara, 2)

So, fear Allah...!

Ameen brother Mockba. this person must not be a Muslim?

"Every good deed is charity whether you come to your brother's assistance or just greet him with a smile.
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rogerrabbit
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Quote rogerrabbit Replybullet Posted: 30 January 2010 at 4:03am
@Mockba, Mariyah: Is there such harm in considering a question? As far as I could see, the original poster had simply been wondering about a topic--why call him rude and say things like "must not be a Muslim" for doing so?
@Hannan: Entirely unnecessary. Again, why do we always have to judge other Muslims so harshly just because they don't immediately see eye to eye with us?

As for the original topic, I am still curious. Yes, the verse Mockba pointed out says "abstain..so you prosper" but that is very different from saying "though shalt not."

-r-
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