Active TopicsActive Topics  Display List of Forum MembersMemberlist  CalendarCalendar  Search The ForumSearch  HelpHelp
  RegisterRegister  LoginLogin  Old ForumOld Forum  Twitter  Facebook
Advertisement:
         

Islamic INTRAfaith Dialogue
 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : Religion - Islam : Islamic INTRAfaith Dialogue
Message Icon Topic: View on Iraq from Beverly Hills Muslims Post Reply Post New Topic
<< Prev Page  of 2
Author Message
kim!
 
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar

Joined: 17 September 2001
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2390
Quote kim! Replybullet Posted: 11 May 2005 at 10:59pm

http://www.dadalos.org/int/Demokratie/Demokratie/demokratie. htm

Democracy.

"No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed, it has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all those other forms that have been tried from time to time" - this is a quote by the former British prime minister Winston Churchill. "

 

etc

Kim...

 

IP IP Logged
ZamanH
 
Guest Group
Guest Group
Avatar
Account Suspended

Joined: 21 July 2004
Location: India
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 448
Quote ZamanH Replybullet Posted: 12 May 2005 at 12:14pm

 have heard many Muslims say that democracy is not compatible with Islam.  For example, what if the majority of people decide that they want something that is un-Islamic (for example, banning hijab).  Then, this majority votes for the un-Islamic thing and wins (because that is how democracy works). 

If the legislature is made answerable to sharia-conforming judiciary, the problem can be solved, I guess. The judiciary in turn should be controlled by knowledgeable religious persons with no interference form the govt.



Edited by ZamanH
An enemy of an enemy is a fickle friend.
There will be more women in hell than men.
..for persecution is worse than the slaughter of the enemy..(Quran 2:191)
Heaven lies under mother's feet
IP IP Logged
kim!
 
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar

Joined: 17 September 2001
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2390
Quote kim! Replybullet Posted: 12 May 2005 at 4:54pm

Besides, what does it matter if the majority of people vote against making hijab compulsory? Those who want to wear it will still wear it, and those who don't will have to deal with whatever consequences occur in the "hereafter". It's their choice.

In a democracy, one assumes there would be a lot of public and open argument and debate about such a topic before anyone decided to have a vote on the subject. (Here in Australia, such a vote is called a "referendum" and for any referendum to pass, it needs at least 2/3 majority, not just 50%)

In a democracy, debates would be open, free and out in the public. Anyone could participate and EVERYONE could learn.

Kim...

 

IP IP Logged
kim!
 
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar

Joined: 17 September 2001
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2390
Quote kim! Replybullet Posted: 12 May 2005 at 5:00pm

Thanks Suleyman. I note this on democracy from the link you sent:

"Democracy in Islam

The above explanation of the term Khilafat also makes it abundantly clear that no individual or dynasty or class can be Khalifah, but that the authority of caliphate is bestowed on any community which accepts the principles of Tawhid and Risalat. In such a society, each individual shares the God given caliphate. This is the point where democracy begins in Islam.

Every person in an Islamic society enjoys the rights and powers of the caliphate of God and in this respect all individuals are equal. No one can deprive anyone of his rights and powers. The agency for running the affairs of the state will be established in accordance with the will of these individuals, and the authority of the state will only be an extension of the powers of the individuals delegated to it. Their opinion will be decisive in the formation of the Government, which will be run with their advice and in accordance with their wishes. Whoever gains their confidence will carry out the duties of the calilphate on their behalf; and when he loses this confidence he will have to relinquish his office. In this respect the political system in Islam as perfect a democracy as ever can be.

What distinguishes Islamic democracy from Western democracy is that while the latter is based on the concept of popular sovereignty the former rests on the principle of popular Khilafat. In Western democracy the people are sovereign, in Islam sovereignty is vested in God and the people are His caliphs or representatives. In the former the people make their own laws; in the latter they have to follow and obey the laws(Shari ‘ah) given by God through His Prophet. In one the Government undertakes to fulfil the will of the people; in the other the Government and the people alike have to do the will of God. Western democracy is a kind of absolute authority which exercises its powers in a free and uncontrolled manner, whereas Islamic democracy is a kind of absolute authority which exercises its powers in a free and uncontrolled manner, whereas Islamic democracy is sub-servient to the Divine Law and exercises its authority in accordance with the injunctions of God and within the limits prescribed by Him."

 

So democracy in a completely Islamic state should be EASIER to run than in an ordinary Western country. You follow God's laws, but encourage education, discussion and voting.

However, in the West we cannot just say "we follow God's laws". Which God? Which set of laws? Our countries are FILLED with people of different religions and creeds. WHOSE traditions and laws should we follow? Answer - we CAN'T. We have to decide between ourselves what is moral and just WITHOUT the help of having a God to decide it for us. 

Kim...

IP IP Logged
Brother123
 
Groupie
Groupie


Joined: 22 April 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 84
Quote Brother123 Replybullet Posted: 13 May 2005 at 11:55am
Those women whose alinks you ask Muslims to follow are enemies of Islam. They are femanists who want Muslim women to leave Islam but after realising they cant get them to leave Islam they try to confuse them to leave parts of Islam.

When people advertise their articles then we know what tehir intensions are lol. They reveal their inner coat.

Which GOD?

There is only one GOD.

www.shariahway.com




Edited by Brother123
IP IP Logged
Suleyman
 
Senior Member
Senior  Member


Joined: 10 March 2003
Location: Turkey
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3324
Quote Suleyman Replybullet Posted: 13 May 2005 at 11:58am
Originally posted by kim!

Thanks Suleyman. I note this on democracy from the link you sent:

"Democracy in Islam

The above explanation of the term Khilafat also makes it abundantly clear that no individual or dynasty or class can be Khalifah, but that the authority of caliphate is bestowed on any community which accepts the principles of Tawhid and Risalat. In such a society, each individual shares the God given caliphate. This is the point where democracy begins in Islam.

Every person in an Islamic society enjoys the rights and powers of the caliphate of God and in this respect all individuals are equal. No one can deprive anyone of his rights and powers. The agency for running the affairs of the state will be established in accordance with the will of these individuals, and the authority of the state will only be an extension of the powers of the individuals delegated to it. Their opinion will be decisive in the formation of the Government, which will be run with their advice and in accordance with their wishes. Whoever gains their confidence will carry out the duties of the calilphate on their behalf; and when he loses this confidence he will have to relinquish his office. In this respect the political system in Islam as perfect a democracy as ever can be.

What distinguishes Islamic democracy from Western democracy is that while the latter is based on the concept of popular sovereignty the former rests on the principle of popular Khilafat. In Western democracy the people are sovereign, in Islam sovereignty is vested in God and the people are His caliphs or representatives. In the former the people make their own laws; in the latter they have to follow and obey the laws(Shari ‘ah) given by God through His Prophet. In one the Government undertakes to fulfil the will of the people; in the other the Government and the people alike have to do the will of God. Western democracy is a kind of absolute authority which exercises its powers in a free and uncontrolled manner, whereas Islamic democracy is a kind of absolute authority which exercises its powers in a free and uncontrolled manner, whereas Islamic democracy is sub-servient to the Divine Law and exercises its authority in accordance with the injunctions of God and within the limits prescribed by Him."

 

So democracy in a completely Islamic state should be EASIER to run than in an ordinary Western country. You follow God's laws, but encourage education, discussion and voting.

However, in the West we cannot just say "we follow God's laws". Which God? Which set of laws? Our countries are FILLED with people of different religions and creeds. WHOSE traditions and laws should we follow? Answer - we CAN'T. We have to decide between ourselves what is moral and just WITHOUT the help of having a God to decide it for us. 

Kim...

 My regards...

IP IP Logged
kim!
 
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar

Joined: 17 September 2001
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2390
Quote kim! Replybullet Posted: 15 May 2005 at 5:55am
Originally posted by Brother123

Those women whose alinks you ask Muslims to follow are enemies of Islam. They are femanists who want Muslim women to leave Islam but after realising they cant get them to leave Islam they try to confuse them to leave parts of Islam.

When people advertise their articles then we know what tehir intensions are lol. They reveal their inner coat.

Which GOD?

There is only one GOD.

www.shariahway.com




*sigh*  WHEN will you men stop being so frightened of women that you have to keep abusing them?

Fatimah Mernissi is a feminist AND an Islamic scholar! She tries to show people that being a Muslim and giving women their rights AND even having a democracy is possible and desirable.

But then I suppose you didn't even bother to read the link that I sent. Just like no one read "Satanic Verses".

It's amazing how people are so ready to condemn instead of learning.

Kim...
PS apparently, "Satanic Verses" is a monumentally BORING book that almost no one would have read if no one had advertised it by protesting against it.

IP IP Logged
<< Prev Page  of 2
Post Reply Post New Topic
Printable version Printable version

Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

Disclaimer:
The opinions expressed herein contain positions and viewpoints that are not necessarily those of IslamiCity. This forum is offered to stimulate dialogue and discussion in our continuing mission of being an educational organization.
If there is any issue with any of the postings please email to icforum at islamicity.com or if you are a forum's member you can use the report button.

Note: The 99 names of Allah avatars are courtesy of www.arthafez.com

Advertisement:



Sponsored by:
Islamicity Membership Program:
IslamiCity Donation Program  http://www.islamicity.com/Donate
IslamiCity Arabic eLearning http://www.islamiCity.com/ArabAcademy
Complete Domain & Hosting Solutions www.icDomain.com
Home for Muslim Tunes www.icTunes.com
Islamic Video Collections www.islamiTV.com
IslamiCity Marriage Site www.icMarriage.com