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Islam for non-Muslims
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ejdavid
 
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Quote ejdavid Replybullet Topic: Amish Help Killer’s Family
    Posted: 06 October 2006 at 8:53am
"At the behest of Amish leaders, a fund has also been set up for the killer's widow and three children."

Does anyone know if this is consistent with Islamic Sharia law?

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Angela
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Quote Angela Replybullet Posted: 06 October 2006 at 8:57am

What does Amish culture have to do with Islamic Law?

But if you must know, in Sharia Law, the victims family has a right to forgive the criminal.  I once read an article where a victims family pardoned their son's killer in Saudi Arabia because they determined that it would not bring their son back and it was clear the man had not intended to kill their son.  He was literally on the chopping block when they pardoned him.

Now, leave these poor people alone.  The Amish and the Muslims.  Those little girls are not fodder for your attacks against another religion.  Stop using them as such.

Better yet, go join the Westboro Baptist Church and leave everyone alone.  They seem to suit you best.

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ejdavid
 
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Quote ejdavid Replybullet Posted: 06 October 2006 at 10:11am
Angela - You wrote: "...it was clear the man had not intended to kill their son..." so they forgave him.

You are defensive about this simple matter, and it makes me wonder what you might be hiding. I did not ask if Sharia Law provides for the forgiveness of murderers, whether intentional or not. I asked if providing for an intentional murderer's family afterward is consistent with Sharia Law.

Specifically, is revenge against the family of an intentional killer sanctioned by Sharia Law? This is not a disparagement. It is simple fact finding. The very fact YOU believe it is a disparaging question makes me suspect Sharia Law DOES sanction revenge against the intentional killer's family.

The question is simple. Is that true or not?


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ummziba
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Quote ummziba Replybullet Posted: 06 October 2006 at 11:24am

What has the Amish family to do with Shari'ah law?  Anyway, I am sure you know the answer to what you are asking, but in case....

042.036
YUSUFALI: Whatever ye are given (here) is (but) a convenience of this life: but that which is with Allah is better and more lasting: (it is) for those who believe and put their trust in their Lord:
PICKTHAL: Now whatever ye have been given is but a passing comfort for the life of the world, and that which Allah hath is better and more lasting for those who believe and put their trust in their Lord,
SHAKIR: So whatever thing you are given, that is only a provision of this world's life, and what is with Allah is better and more lasting for those who believe and rely on their Lord.

042.037
YUSUFALI: Those who avoid the greater crimes and shameful deeds, and, when they are angry even then forgive;
PICKTHAL: And those who shun the worst of sins and indecencies and, when they are wroth, forgive,
SHAKIR: And those who. shun the great sins and indecencies, and whenever they are angry they forgive.

042.038
YUSUFALI: Those who hearken to their Lord, and establish regular Prayer; who (conduct) their affairs by mutual Consultation; who spend out of what We bestow on them for Sustenance;
PICKTHAL: And those who answer the call of their Lord and establish worship, and whose affairs are a matter of counsel, and who spend of what We have bestowed on them,
SHAKIR: And those who respond to their Lord and keep up prayer, and their rule is to take counsel among themselves, and who spend out of what We have given them.

042.039
YUSUFALI: And those who, when an oppressive wrong is inflicted on them, (are not cowed but) help and defend themselves.
PICKTHAL: And those who, when great wrong is done to them, defend themselves,
SHAKIR: And those who, when great wrong afflicts them, defend themselves.

042.040
YUSUFALI: The recompense for an injury is an injury equal thereto (in degree): but if a person forgives and makes reconciliation, his reward is due from Allah: for (Allah) loveth not those who do wrong.
PICKTHAL: The guerdon of an ill-deed is an ill the like thereof. But whosoever pardoneth and amendeth, his wage is the affair of Allah. Lo! He loveth not wrong-doers.
SHAKIR: And the recompense of evil is punishment like it, but whoever forgives and amends, he shall have his reward from Allah; surely He does not love the unjust.

042.041
YUSUFALI: But indeed if any do help and defend themselves after a wrong (done) to them, against such there is no cause of blame.
PICKTHAL: And whoso defendeth himself after he hath suffered wrong - for such, there is no way (of blame) against them.
SHAKIR: And whoever defends himself after his being oppressed, these it is against whom there is no way (to blame).

042.042
YUSUFALI: The blame is only against those who oppress men and wrong-doing and insolently transgress beyond bounds through the land, defying right and justice: for such there will be a penalty grievous.
PICKTHAL: The way (of blame) is only against those who oppress mankind, and wrongfully rebel in the earth. For such there is a painful doom.
SHAKIR: The way (to blame) is only against those who oppress men and revolt in the earth unjustly; these shall have a painful punishment.

042.043
YUSUFALI: But indeed if any show patience and forgive, that would truly be an exercise of courageous will and resolution in the conduct of affairs.
PICKTHAL: And verily whoso is patient and forgiveth - lo! that, verily, is (of) the steadfast heart of things.
SHAKIR: And whoever is patient and forgiving, these most surely are actions due to courage.

Our Creator does not tell us we can carry out "revenge" but, we can certainly defend and help ourselves.  Our Creator encourages us to forgive, make reconcilliation and be patient.  Any Muslim, would certainly gain great rewards from Allah if they provided for the family of the killer of their children.  I cannot speak for the Amish.....

Sticks and stones may break my bones, but your words...they break my soul ~
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Angela
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Quote Angela Replybullet Posted: 06 October 2006 at 11:47am

I'm just sick of evangelical christians using these poor little girls for their own political and ideological ends.

I grew up in Amish country and had dear friends in the Menonite Community.  There has never been a more simple and loving people.  Their whole ideology is different from any other Christian group.  They are complete pacifists and focus deeply on forgiveness.  That is far more than what other so called Christian groups do.

I ask you, how do you feel about a Christian society that uses the death penalty?  Do you feel it is within Christian Law to use Capital Punishment?

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Hanan
 
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Quote Hanan Replybullet Posted: 06 October 2006 at 12:40pm

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ejdavid
 
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Quote ejdavid Replybullet Posted: 06 October 2006 at 7:48pm
ummziba - You wrote: "What has the Amish family to do with Shari'ah law?"

Both Amish and Islamic 'theology' are complete way of life. I do not believe the Amish have a written civil and criminal code like Sharia, but they do have customs, and their kindness towards the killers family reflects those customs.

Sharia is a complete Islamic legal system, and I would like to know what sorts of things are and are not permitted in such circumstances. Would revenge constitute a complete defense before a Sharia court?

This sort of thing is important to know because many Muslims believe all people should be governed by Sharia. It is therefor a reasonable thing for a non-Muslim to find out what that means.
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ejdavid
 
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Quote ejdavid Replybullet Posted: 06 October 2006 at 7:57pm
Hanan

You insult me, but I do not insult Islam. I simply am suspicious of Sharia law, since I do not know it. Muslims, however, are supposed to structure their lives to comply with it. It seems fair enough to ask if revenge is a complete defense in a Sharia court.

If so, that would be one stark diffence between the Amish customs and Islamic law.
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