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 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : General : Science & Technology
Message Icon Topic: Circumcision prevents AIDS Post Reply Post New Topic
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Israfil
 
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Quote Israfil Replybullet Posted: 20 July 2005 at 10:03am

Zaman said:

I thought prevention means restriction or curtailment

It does mean that, but the argument concerning circumcision preventing AIDS is flawed. Number one when you contract AIDS it is the last stage. What you do however contract is HIV first, that you cannot prevent even if circumcision happen as a small child. The reason being is when you get sick like a flu or cold. What your cells do as the first line of defense is your body sends your white cells (I forgot the name as biology was completed some years ago) to "photocopy" the make up of the virus which the "picture" of the virus is thus transmitted to the T-cells so they can identify the virus in the body. Once identified your T-cells attack the virus and destroy it evntually. As your body destroys the virus your body constantly makes killer T-cells so the eradication of the Virus is complete. Now with the HIV (Human Immunodeficiency Virus) this virus not only keeps white cells from photo copying the virus (it in fact attacks these cells and implants their DNA so they can replicate themselves) and destroys the T-cells in the body for a lower count.

Once HIV is contracted you do not die from it, you die from the stuff your body could originally fight such as colds and flus.  To answer your question circumcision does not prevent HIV because 1) the body has no immunity for the virus in the first place 2) It can still be contracted any other way. So as Noah mentions there is no miracle here. I not spitting this out of my butt cheek because right now I work at a hospital here in California. I won't say what my job is but we deal with HIV/AIDS patients all the time. If you wish I can slo post a doctors opinion on how HIV is contracted sexually and I would more than happy ask a doctor from my hospital regarding your argument from the article you posted.

But brother if I may ask with sincerity if you truly believe in what the article presents then I sincerely ask you to test this truht yourself. Now you can do one or two things:

1) Marry and love somone with the HIV virus and thus have intercourse with them knowing that the article is true

or

2) If there is some slight doubt in your mind, not only is the article flawed but it gives you lack of confidence in it. Thus the only safe way to prevention of HIV/AIDS is abstinence or contraception not circumcision. BTW circumcision does not restrict HIV/AIDS to some extent it does nothing to no extent. Again test your articles hypothesis yourself. I'm not asking you to kill yourself I believe your an intelligent person, and enough intelligent to know that HIV/AIDS cannot be prevented by the body, yet. Yes the HIV virus is fragile and can die in air, drying of blood, alcohol, bleach or any other household products, but once inside the blood it is an enemy to the body's life system. Brother there is no prvention from the body yet and to propogate that article is like propogating how tall God is.

 



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ZamanH
 
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Quote ZamanH Replybullet Posted: 21 July 2005 at 1:00am

1) Marry and love somone with the HIV virus and thus have intercourse with them knowing that the article is true

Why would I marry a HIV positive person, if I don't want to get AIDS?? As I had said earlier, it reduces the possibility of one's contracting AIDS (due to intercourse with a HIV positive person) but it does not eliminates it. And I considered it a miracle that Islamic practices have medical significance even though, 1400 years back much wasn't known about AIDS.

I am not discouraging the use of condoms among people of the populations/communitites where AIDS is prevalent. Of course, it checks AIDS epidemic better. My point was circumcision also checks AIDS epidemic and has other medical benefits.



Edited by ZamanH
An enemy of an enemy is a fickle friend.
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..for persecution is worse than the slaughter of the enemy..(Quran 2:191)
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Quote Israfil Replybullet Posted: 21 July 2005 at 6:13am
Zaman I dont doubt your findings as significant and sincere but now you have used two words so far which run contrary. First you used the word "prevent" then said "reduced." Now that you mention reduced I can understand where you are coming from but again I have to read over the article to find how this reduces the contraction of AIDs but I will look over your article again.
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Quote Israfil Replybullet Posted: 22 July 2005 at 6:10pm

Salaam,

Brother Zaman I have an update on your findings as I asked a friend who works in the medical clinic at my hospital. One of the things I asked her ( as I already knew myself but for the sake of this forum I still asked the question) does circumcision reduce the risk and/prevent HIV?

Answer: No. There are some actual researchers which there is a presupposition to where circumcision may reduce the risk or even prevent bacterial infection ( notice infection was used and not HIV). The reason being is because the foreskin's interior contains enzymes which may help fight off bacteria but because of bad hygenic reasons these enzymes may not help reduce the risk of infection and in fact with bad hygeine one can have bacteria entrapped under the foreskin area. The removal of this is more clean and less of a concern if the foreskin was still attached.

Once infected, the aggreives virus (HIV) attaches to the white blood cells which implants it DNA and so when the cells are overloaded it explodes reproducing more HIV and the same process continues over and over again. As I mentioned before its not the actual virus that kills you its the stuff that is minor that can kill you such as colds, flus and even pnuemonia.



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Quote ZamanH Replybullet Posted: 22 July 2005 at 11:20pm
Originally posted by Israfil

Zaman I dont doubt your findings as significant and sincere but now you have used two words so far which run contrary. First you used the word "prevent" then said "reduced." Now that you mention reduced I can understand where you are coming from but again I have to read over the article to find how this reduces the contraction of AIDs but I will look over your article again.



Okay I meant reduce. I thought prevention means reduction. I admit I caused inadvertently caused misunderstanding.
An enemy of an enemy is a fickle friend.
There will be more women in hell than men.
..for persecution is worse than the slaughter of the enemy..(Quran 2:191)
Heaven lies under mother's feet
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Quote Israfil Replybullet Posted: 23 July 2005 at 4:15pm
Ok reduce it is, but did you see my recent post?
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Quote ZamanH Replybullet Posted: 23 July 2005 at 9:47pm
Yes, I did read. But I still think it is highly probable that circumcision reduces the risk of AIDS too, (and not just bacterial infections) because I first read about it in reputed Indian daily and then, later when I first posted on this thread, I came across various web-sites which were non-islamic and corroborated it. That indicates many experts (though, not all) believe that. 
An enemy of an enemy is a fickle friend.
There will be more women in hell than men.
..for persecution is worse than the slaughter of the enemy..(Quran 2:191)
Heaven lies under mother's feet
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Israfil
 
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Quote Israfil Replybullet Posted: 24 July 2005 at 12:18am
Very interesting
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