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Basics of Islam
 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : Religion - Islam : Basics of Islam
Message Icon Topic: Does Islam Look bad in Polygamy? Post Reply Post New Topic
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rookaiya
 
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Quote rookaiya Replybullet Posted: 05 October 2006 at 12:04am

im surah Ar Rahman, it states that " and everyday He (ALLAH SWA ) excercises universal power." all lands whether its the USA or wherever, at the end of the day, No man made law can be above Allah SWAs law. so even if the country doesnt recognise polygamy n u are considered not legally married in that country, what does it matter, cos when u die, its Allah SWAs Law that u will be held accountable for n not some ordinance or Act of Utah or South Africa

Im an attorney. But i chose not to register my marriage legally cos i was of the belief that the legal system of this land is not in keeping with Allahs Law and it was by choice that i only made Nikah. Depsite my ex hubby begging me time n time again to get the marriaeg registered, i refused becos to me, the Nikah is binding and that was sufficient. but thats just me

i respect people who wish to have their marriages resgistred acccording to the laws of the land where they reside, becos they do this to safeguard themselves, should things go wrong.

but one cant be forced into entering into a legally binding marriage. if one is happy with Nikah, then Alhamdulilah

There was a body formed in 2000 in South Africa for the recognition of Muslim Personal Law. but this hasnt materialilsed yet. we had speakers from Islamic contries advsing us on Sharia Law and how its implemented in their courts

Even when it comes to the children, here in South Africa, children do inherit form their biological father. he need not be married to the mother in order for this to happen. Even children where parenst are not married  legally, can have their fathers last name, and  their fathers name is added to their birth Certificate, so should the father die, and there is no will,  these children will have equal rights to his estate, same like his kids from the legal marriage

its only the second wife who will not inherit from her hubby unless he makes a will n shes in it

so things are not so bad in South Africa. even if the breadwinner dies in a motor accident n theres a claim for loss of support, all his children, whether from a legal marriaeg or not will share in the claim, equally.

these kids are no longer known as illegitimate as was the case before. they are called extra marital children n they have equal rights with other children of the man in question.  Insha Allah more refroms will be made, and in time, even the second , third n fourth wives will get due recognition

 

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UmmTaaha
 
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Quote UmmTaaha Replybullet Posted: 05 October 2006 at 1:24am

Fatima,

Thank you for your concern on this thread.  Jazak allah khair.

 

Angela:

The question becomes, is a man treating his wives equally if the family becomes in jeopardy by the breaking of the law.  According to US inheritance laws (which are far from Islamic) and other laws, Polygamous wives would not get social security benefits from their husbands, health insurance or legal protection in the case of a divorce because she's not really married.  The courts could not enforce maintenance and property rights would be a real issue.

Also, the second wife would not be recognized as legally his wife.  Although the Islamic community might see them as married, the rest would not.  Her children would be in a purely legal term, illegitimate, and she would face social stigma.  Is this far to her? 

What would be the need for a woman to live like this?  Is it treating her fairly and equally.  If the husband dies, in the US, by default, the first wife would get everything.  This is especially the case if the husband was young and didn't have his will set up properly.  If the first wife despises the second wife (is happens sadly) she could really hurt her co-wife.  Human failings are many.

All of this is true even if a man in US takes a woman who he does not marry. This other woman is not his wife in the eyes of the society, and his kid are illegitimate. However there is a difference between such a man and the one who is married in the eyes of Allah .... this second man is not committing adultry as per the divine law, however the first one is ... this is a great great diff.

I do not have a lot of time at the moment, but insha allah I will return to this thread later.

 

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fatima
 
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Quote fatima Replybullet Posted: 05 October 2006 at 4:58am

Bismillah irrahman irrahim

Assalamu alaikum

Sister rookaiya what i was saying in first post was that us muslim have made this a habbit that things we dont understand or dont want to follow we discard them saying they are not necessary, or it dont apply no more and things like that.

About women not needing or thinking about another man is in case of a blissfull marriage. I was reading this research on psychology of men and women and it stated that for a women her first emotional and physical relation stays with her forever. While a man can actually love two women at the same time . If we look at islamic setting then when a girl gets married that is her first relation and so she would cherish it for rest of her life if he treats her good and keeps her happy. So there is almost no chance of her being interested in another person. On the other hand a guy could be really happy in his life and still could develop feelings for some1. Our sheikh explained it beautifully that when we say this we are not putting blame on the men, its just maybe all this guy knows is good character of this women and in his heart he thinks mashaAllah she is good, it would be good to have such lady as a wife. So its best that he gives his feelings halal form and gets married to her. It is allowed because thats the way Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala made nature of man. Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala alone knows His hikmah but maybe this nature of man was needed as some times circumstances do come that they have to take a second wife. NO OFFENCE TO BROTHERS

Hopefully this time it makes sense

wassalam

Say: (O Muhammad) If you love Allah, then follow me, Allah will love you and forgive you your faults, and Allah is Forgiving, MercifuL
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rookaiya
 
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Quote rookaiya Replybullet Posted: 05 October 2006 at 5:06am
yes it does make lots of sense fatima. thanks for clarifying
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Angela
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Quote Angela Replybullet Posted: 05 October 2006 at 8:38am

While Polygamy itself is not wrong and has many benefits.  What about obeying the laws of the land?  I think that's pretty much the argument about Polygamy making Islam look bad.  Its not Polygamy in countries where its legal.  Its Polygamy in countries where it is not.

I really have no issue with polygamy in general.  However, while the law remains such.  If you live in an area where Polygamy is illegal, you need to understand that participating in the practice is breaking the law.

If a man truly wants/needs a second wife.  Perhaps he needs to look into two LEGAL ways of doing it.  First off is to challenge the law based on it unconstitutional nature.  Second, move to a country where it is legal.

The objection that was voiced on the other thread was more about breaking the law than polygamy itself.  When you become a US citizen, you pledge to follow the laws of the country.  You swear before God.  Do you get to ignore one oath because you feel the need to take a second wife? 

If you were born here, as a citizen you still have the same obligation to follow the laws.  You either change them or obey them.  If you don't, you must be prepared to face the consequences.  Its Civic Responsibility at that point, not religious choice.

For the religious choice, you must do your Civic Duty and challenge the law you see as unjust.  You don't just get to break it.

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Quote UmmTaaha Replybullet Posted: 05 October 2006 at 5:58pm

Angela,

I agree with you when you say, in your country polygamy is illegal, and practising it would mean breaking the law. Muslims have to obey the law of the land, there is no excuse for them. I am not trying to fish any here.

However, I do not understand how you can speak for the statement in the other thread. It was a blanket statement of intolerance against muslims ... If i see such blanket intolerance against muslims in non-muslim lands, the question that is raised in my mind is, are my fellow muslim brothers and sisters tolerant towards the nonmuslims who practice fornication and adultery? Are they tolerant towards those who practice homosexuality?

I dont know if someone invloved in these practices is breaking the law of your land, however I do know that this person is breaking a divine law. Therefore it is offensive if people there are actually breaking the divine law in their social behavior and no finger is pointed at them however, people have such strong repulsion (intolerance) at others who are only breaking the law of the land.

One is offending a country (a set of man made laws) and the other is offending Allah!  It all depends on who you have magnified in your heart more. I am first offended by someone who would offend The Creator and second by someone who may offend a man made law.

Yes, muslims who need to practice polygamy should move out of your country or they will be breaking a law. Agreed.

Please advice what you have to say about fornicators, adulterers and homosexuals? Muslims or non-muslims? I want to know from one of you, are these people involved in an illegal act or not? I cannot discuss this subject further till I know the exact legality of such social behaviors prevalent in your country. Would you want such people to leave your country because they are breaking a law, or what is the case about them?

Thank you.

 

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fatima
 
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Quote fatima Replybullet Posted: 06 October 2006 at 5:50am

Bismillah irrahman irrahim

Assalamu alaikum

Hi angela, The laws of the land should be followed as long as you are not compromising on the divine laws. And i dont think practising polygamy is an issue on which you should break the laws of your land. I think you are right that if some1 believes that because it is allowed by our Lord so state should not stand against it, they should make it known in a legal manner.

There are always loopholes in every legal system though. My friend's dad has two wives and they are both registered marriages. I am not sure about all the details but a case was filed that there is religious freedom in UK and islam allows polygamy so the second marriage is legal. I think they have some sort of clause which says that in case of seperation they wont be able to use laws of land but would have to refer to religious laws. All i know is that there are ways and it dont have to be illegal.

wassalam

Say: (O Muhammad) If you love Allah, then follow me, Allah will love you and forgive you your faults, and Allah is Forgiving, MercifuL
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Angela
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Quote Angela Replybullet Posted: 06 October 2006 at 8:04am

UmmTaaha,

Actually, unlike some splinter sects of my own faith.  Islam does not teach polygamy as a requirement, only a permissible act if the proper terms and conditions can be met.

4:3 And if ye fear that ye will not deal fairly by the orphans, marry of the women, who seem good to you, two or three or four; and if ye fear that ye cannot do justice (to so many) then one (only) or (the captives) that your right hands possess. Thus it is more likely that ye will not do injustice.

You aren't treating them justly if you are putting them in a position to be prosecuted under secular law.

I believe in Polygyny.  I feel that when practiced properly, it can be a beautiful thing.  This means that all women involved should be willing and wanting to enter this kind of arrangment.  This means the man should have the financial income to support multiple families, because unless the wives want to live in the same home, each needs her own residence.  There needs to be a fundamental standard of care and love between all parties.

For example, if Polygyny were restored to practice (and only if) I would consider allowing my husband to take a specific woman as a second wife.  She and I are dear friends and she's never found anyone.  Now, because its forbidden by the law and thus also by my faith, that won't happen unless its changed.  I see where polygamy could benefit my family and this woman.  I am willing and open to sharing my loving husband.  But, above all those desires is the desire to uphold the law and not end up in jail, outcast by society or excommunicated. 

There is a very big difference in believing something is good and breaking the law.  I believe that certain taxes are unjust, but I would never risk jail by not paying them.  I believe that interest should be outlawed, but I would never risk my home or car by not paying the interest.  Many things are legal that should not be, and many things are illegal that should be legal.  This is the paradox in society.

But unless something is a religious requirement (which polygyny is not in Islam) there is no need to break the law.  Like Fatima's relative there are legal ways of dealing with it. 

In a way, the trend of non married and gay couples in this country are changing the laws and making it easier on the unregistered plural wives of men.  But, is that really a benefit you want to partake of?  I would rather a Muslim family challenge and change the law, thus continuing to encourage lawful marriage and cohabitation.

Its easier to challenge the immorality of fornication and adultery if you are fighting to preserve the legal marriage as a tenet of society.

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