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Sawtul Khilafah
 
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Quote Sawtul Khilafah Replybullet Posted: 28 September 2006 at 4:28pm

Bismillahirrahmaanerraheem

Originally posted by Angela

So, anything that shows women in misery is propaganda, but there never seems to be any videos available to disprove them.  Please how me pictures of women under the Taliban smiling and enjoying themselves, their children and their faith. (Here's a hint...you won't be able to)

Ofcourse because you cant see them smiling when they are covering their faces (Duh!)

Originally posted by Angela

 They are the protectors and maintainers not the masters.  There is only one master, God.  Ever heard the statement that no man can have two masters.  Its the same for a woman.

I never said the husband is the God of the wife, but since the man is the head of the family the wife must listen to her, the same way that the man must obey the laws of the country.

Originally posted by Angela

Maybe she's upset because she's in danger, poverty or has lost someone special. 

Or maybe it's because someone special to her was killed by the Allies (US, UN, Northern Alliance etc.)

Originally posted by Angela

 You have this obsession where you think that equality means nakedness.  I really wonder about you at certain points.  Why does the idea of women being out of the house and going to school mean nudity to you? 

We are dealing with two issues here. You complained about two things:Women not being able to wear attractive clothes or show their body or shape And women not being able to go to school.

I dont think the old woman in the picture looked sad becuase she wanted to go to school..., neither could she be wanting to show her body (unless she is totally retarded). Hence she must be sad about something else. We dont know what, but to use that picture for an unrelated propaganda is dishonest to say the least.

Originally posted by Angela

What proof do you have that women were not forbidden from schools? 

To tell you the truth I dont have any Real Proof, and neither do you. All I know is that the Taliban said they would make schools for girls if they had enough funding.

Were they telling the truth ? Well I think they were, because if they were totally against female education they would not let female doctors and nurses to work there, especially as this would encourage other women to educate.

Originally posted by Angela

The few female doctors practicing in Kabul (one city in all of Afghanistan) were educated BEFORE the Taliban came to power.  How many women became doctors AFTER?

Obviously none, since the Taliban were only incharge for less than 5 years and that's not enough time for someone to become a doctor!

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Hayfa
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Quote Hayfa Replybullet Posted: 28 September 2006 at 4:42pm

In almost all cases of war, peoples lives are chaotic and fearful. Often any new ruling group will force subjugation of those who came before them.

Oh, and that picture of the old woman is just hilarious. What does that supposed to mean? That she is upset she cant show off her body ???

Are you just heartless and cruel? Where is your compassion? The Afghani people have suffered for decades. They have been pawns of others. Can you not look into the eyes of another human being and feel for them? Have you thought about her being hungry?  Clerly people there are suffering, especially the women.  No one is saying that it is because they are Moslems. There are many happy and healthy Moslems in the world. 40 years of war and conflict will destroy people. It destoys their systems of governance, their education systems, their food production and their social systems. With the advent of war many people with the skills such as doctors or educations either were killed or fled. Very few brave people stayed.

Not everything is "propoganda" as you say.  Some sure, yes, but not all of it. No one is saying Iranians live such terrible lives and they are a Moslem country. Or how about those Saudis. The sad part is the Russians had reduced it to rubble and the US finished what little their was left. In war and chaos there is no regular life.

When you do things from your soul, you feel a river moving in you, a joy. Rumi
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Sawtul Khilafah
 
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Quote Sawtul Khilafah Replybullet Posted: 28 September 2006 at 4:52pm
Sorry I meant it's hilarious that they used the picture for their propaganda, not that the actual person in the picture is funny.
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Quote Sign*Reader Replybullet Posted: 28 September 2006 at 8:59pm
Originally posted by Cassandra

Please will someone tell me........is there anything in the Quran which offers justification for this senseless act of retrogression?

Women's advocate killed in Afghanistan


What are they so afraid of???



Cassandra:
 No there is no justification in Quran on this kind of retrogression but you know when any nation which has been carpet bombed to stone age or close to it. The value of human life has been degraded to a point that it is less valuable than dogs in the US.(our next door city has settled to pay $225,000 for shooting of a pit bull to death during a police action in somebody's backyard)

 In Afghanistan the the rule is US vs THEM and that is what gets everybody killed whoever sticks his or her neck out no questions asked bcs there is no penalty for anyone.
Now come to point of this lady advocate getting killed, Afghanistan is an active war zone at stone age conditions, where the woman are the most precious party to produce the next stage of the fighters, that is the reality and you expect no reaction to what this lady was trying to do to take away the prospects to bake cookies for so called market economy(who can teach the market to them, they are master at it) while war rages on. The Talib are counting on a generational time line in this war. Who is going to produce the babies? 
This can only  happen after the surrender of Afghanistan by Mullah Omar & CO to the US and Afghanistan becoming  American territory like Japan.(Fat cance)
Let me relate you a story:
A guy travelled to Kabul on a business trip. He asked his host/friend to find him a safe deposit box for a large amount of cash he wanted to put away. The host said give him the money, so he did. The host flung bundle of cash into a corner of the room they were sitting in, telling his visitor to go about his business and come back any time to find his money that will be at the same place bcs it was Omar's rule of law and order. No thief who would be caught will escape the punishment of the law and that was losing of the right hand.
When Omar issued the edict that there will be no dope cultivation, it was NONE.
Compare with today the dope fields, thay are back in bloom under whose supervision?
You know after a good round of hashish, what does a dopehead would like to have-- a woman of easy virtues!!! I hope this answers your question not that I agree with the killing !!
Peace
Kismet Domino: Faith/Courage/Liberty/Abundance/Selfishness/Immorality/Apathy/Bondage or extinction.
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Cassandra
 
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Quote Cassandra Replybullet Posted: 29 September 2006 at 5:23am
Angela wrote:

 Ban on women's wearing brightly colored clothes. In Taliban terms, these are "sexually attracting colors."

(Thanks Angela - right on the money, as always....)

Sawtul Khilafah rejoined:

"As far as I know, most Afghan women wore bright blue ..."

(?)point

Sign Reader commented: (and thanks for your post; you make some very interesting points)

"You know after a good round of hashish, what does a dopehead would like to have-- a woman of easy virtues!!!"

Yessiree:  those bright blue burquas can really turn a man into an animal!

If a man can't control himself, it is a woman's fault for not covering herself from head to toe (thus restricting all movement - but a good way to keep us under control, no?) I am sitting here at the computer wearing mid height heels, a mid calf skirt, and a tank top (exposing arms!!!). I think I look quite acceptable, not provocative, there are no male teachers beating my office door down, and anyway, would find it hard to type in a burqua! When are men going to stop using the excuse that women "provoke them"?

 

 

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Quote Sign*Reader Replybullet Posted: 29 September 2006 at 9:16am
Originally posted by Cassandra

................I think I look quite acceptable, not provocative...

In your case you might have to pay just kidding
Sitting in Spain comparing with Afghanistan? Isn't this what I would say comparing Spanish oranges with Afghani apples

I didn't agree with all that which has been going on in Afghanistan, gave you a simple scenrio of lawlessness and poverty. The problem with western thinking is that they want everybody to follow their lead in everything without delay and that is not going to happen particularly in Afghanistan.
Why doesn't it get through the thick skulls is beyond me.


You don't want to get me started on the subject of man controlling himself particularly the Europeans who will do what not to fulfill their sick sexual fantacies in third world countries........while  their own  woman ---I better stop


Kismet Domino: Faith/Courage/Liberty/Abundance/Selfishness/Immorality/Apathy/Bondage or extinction.
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Angela
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Quote Angela Replybullet Posted: 29 September 2006 at 9:26am

When are men going to stop turning equality into a question of chastity versus harlotry?

Why does a woman have to be some submissive animal at the beck and call of her less chaste male counterpart to stay pure?

Why does a woman have to submit to her male counterpart that are the perpetrators of 99% of sexual crimes?

Rape, incest, child abuse, pedophilia...these crimes have far, far, far more male perpetrators and far, far, far more female victims.

Men are the ones failing in situations like Afghanistan.  Stone the woman "accused" of adultery, but don't round up the rapists and have public executions.  If the men truly feared the punishments available like women must, then a woman wouldn't need an escort 24/7.

There are hadiths that state a woman only needs a mehram with her if she's going somewhere further than 88 miles (I think) which was the distance you could travel in three days. 

The Prophet of Islam clearly did not intend for women to be locked away in their homes.

And he clearly did not believe they should denied their rights, which they were under the Taliban.

Originally posted by Muhammed (pbuh)

O People, it is true that you have certain rights over your women, but they also have rights over you. Remember that you have taken them as your wives only under God's trust and with His permission. If they abide by your right then to them belongs the right to be fed and clothed in kindness. Treat your women well and be kind to them, for they are your partners and committed helpers. It is your right and they do not make friends with anyone of whom you do not approve, as well as never to be unchaste...

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Quote Angela Replybullet Posted: 29 September 2006 at 9:31am

Sign*Reader,

I do not want to see Afghani women become paper dolls of American women.  I would much prefer to see them in their hijabs and abayas, smiling and laughing and happy. 

I would love to see them without fear of Taliban executions or American Bombs.

I would love to see female doctors, teachers and scientists that can help their people to pull them up out of the rubble made by foreign powers.

This for me isn't about the miniskirt and tank top.  Its far more basic.  Its about the woman's well being.  Being scantily clad is not well being, I certainly won't let my daughters dress lewdly.  However, I also want my girls to be able to go to school and travel without interference.  I want them to be able to find a good husband and not have to fear the government dictating how their relationship should work or having him carried off to war. 

Forced submission is anti-Islamic.  Choice is a gift from God.

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