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Quran & Sunnah
 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : Religion - Islam : Quran & Sunnah
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B.H.
 
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Quote B.H. Replybullet Posted: 04 October 2006 at 8:10pm
Originally posted by fatima

Bismillah irrahman irrahim

Assalamu alaikum

Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala says in Holy Quran, '3:103] And hold fast, all together, by the rope which Allah (stretches out for you), and be not divided among yourselves;

Every time i read things like this and i think why do we not see the bigger picture. All you need to do is read the history and see how sahabah (ra) and salhaf were, there were not, just this and just that group for them, they were muslims. The laws are made from Holy Quran and Sunnah, thats how it always was from the day one. Brother all we need to know is Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala is close to us than our jugular vein, He knows our intention, if we are sincere He would guide us to His way. But if we are looking for an easy way out and means to give up few things because it is too hard to do this in this day and age. Then still the matter is between you and your Lord, He will judge you and He is Most Just Judge.

If you think that you can work out every Fard through Holy Quran alone then May Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala bless you with wisdom and understanding to do that.

wassalam

 

Thank you for your kind words sister Fatima.

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B.H.
 
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Quote B.H. Replybullet Posted: 04 October 2006 at 9:57pm

Here is my reply to Alwardah.

 

 

As Salamu Alaikum BH

Wow you really gave me something to thing about.

Do you really believe that we can practices our religious duties by following the consensus of the community on issues that we are not given exact details on in the Glorious Qur'an without referring them to the Sunnah.

 

Yes, some things are a matter of opinion and not explicitly stated in the Quran.

 

 

Does that mean that if we decided amongst the members here in IC, due to our busy lives we now wish to pray only twice daily not five time, then we can decided by consensus and go ahead, or due to the affluence in most societies now days we only need to pay 1% zakat every 10 years. Audho Billahe minash Shaitanir-Rajim! Do you honestly believe that Allah Subhanahu wa Taala will accept such Ibadah from us.

 

If you disagree with my conclusion then show me in the Quran where I am wrong.

 

Dear brother/sister (not sure if you are a brother or sister) I would suggest that you go back to the basis and I mean here the first pillar of Islam.

 

The first pillar in Islam is understood in principle from reading the Holy Quran.  the Quran teaches that Allah is God and Muhammed is his prophet.

 

Remember we took the Shahadah: I bear witness that there is No God but Allah and that Muhammad is His Messenger.

 

Though not a false statement, where in the Quran is the shahada actually required?

 

The Sunnah/Hadith are classified- some if we do not follow them, we are committing a sin and others if you do follow them, we stand to gain reward from Allah Subhanahu wa Taala.

 

This is yet to be proven.

 

The Ahadith relating to the way we worship Allah Subhanahu wa Taala like Salah, Zakat etc if we do not follow the method the Prophet (Sallallahu Alayhi wa Sallam) taught us to pray, etc we are committing a sin and our Ibadah will not be accepted.

 

Again, this is yet to be proven.  It is not enough to cite some scholar as saying such is the case.  The scholar needs to actually produce his evidence that such is true.

 

On the other hand we have Ahadith showing the preferences of the Prophet (Sallallahu Alayhi wa Sallam) which if we follow them, Alhamdulillah we will be greatly rewarded and if we do not practice them then Insha Allah it is okay we do not get punished.

 

I have read that many hadith are open to question.  Also, while it is affirmed the hadith in most cases are reliable for doctrine and practice, I have not actually been shown the evidence that they are in fact reliable.  Again, I don't want to hear a scholar actually affirm such is true but prove it true with evidence.  How do we know that the hadith are reliable?  How do we know that the chain of narration has not been faked?  Even if the hcain of narration is reliable how do we know that a liar did not deceive someone into believing a lie?

 

Let me give you an example: Take Salatul-Dhuhr the Fard (obligatory) is 4 Rakat if we pray two Rakat or five Rakat it will not be accepted and we will be punished for our negligence. On the other hand we know that the Prophet prayed some Sunnah Rakat before and after the 4 Fard. Now there we have a choice if we wish to pray the 2 Rakat before and 2 Rakat after that is our wish, no punishment here but ample reward. If one desires to increase the Voluntary (Sunnah/Nawafil) prayers Alhamdulillah that is good for the individual. If someone has the time and wishes to pray 10 Rakat after the 4 Fard no one can stop him neither can anyone one tell him that he is committing a sin by doing so. On the other hand if someone just prays the 4 Rakat and is on his way out of the Masjid- no one can tell him that he is committing a sin by not praying the 2 Rakat Sunnah after it. So you see the Hadith are classified, so I suggest you take the time to learn and distinguish what is necessary and what is not, not blankly say WE DONT NEED HADITH ONLY QUR'AN

 

Please do not take offense, but the claim that hadith is of equal in value to the Holy Quran has not been established in this thread yet.  Until it is, citing such hadith is of no authority in determining how and when we should pray.  Prove the hadith is an authority first, then we can discuss the intricacies of what the differing hadith have to say on a matter.

 

And remember what Allah Subhanahu wa Taala has stated in the Glorious Qur'an

And whoever contradicts and opposes the Messenger after the right path has been shown clearly to him, and follows other than the believers' way, We shall keep him in the path he has chosen, and burn him in Hell what an evil destination! (Surah An-Nisa’ 4: 115)

I have already responded to this when replying to one of Sister Fatima's posts.  When you obey Allah, you are obeying the prophet who gave you Allah's words.

Whatsoever the Messenger gives you, take it. And whatsoever he forbids you, abstain from it.  (Surah Al-Hashr 59: 7)

Yes, because whatever the Messenger gives you is from Allah and revealed in the Quran.

Do you then accept part of the Glorious Qur'an and deny part?

No.  I accept the Quran and what is says about ruling by consultation regarding issues not specifically addressed in the Quran.

May Allah Subhanahu wa Ta’ala save us from the whisperings of Shaitan and our own whims and desires and guide us to the truth and keep us on HIS Siratul-Mustaqeem. Ameen!

Amen!!!

Wa Alaikum Salam

Peace to you



Edited by B.H.
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Andalus
 
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Quote Andalus Replybullet Posted: 05 October 2006 at 5:54pm
Originally posted by B.H.

Br. Andalus wrote:

 

Greetings.

Before I continue, I was hoping for more clarity.

So you agree that someone told the Muslims to do something, which was related to having sex on the evenings of Ramadan.

You believe that the Muslims followed some other source.

You believe that this act was the sin (not having sex with their wives during the evenings at Ramadan), and Allah forgave them for this act (not having sex with their wives on Ramadan).

Does this sum up yuor belief?

 

Yes, the Muslims were being deceived into believing something was Allah's will that was not in fact the case.  The Prophet refuted the false doctrine by telling the people they could have relations with their wives at night during the fast.

One more item.

How do you know what the prophet stated? Where did you get his statement from?

A feeling of discouragement when you slip up is a sure sign that you put your faith in deeds. -Ibn 'Ata'llah
http://www.sunnipath.com
http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/
http://www.pt-go.com/
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B.H.
 
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Quote B.H. Replybullet Posted: 05 October 2006 at 7:21pm
Originally posted by Andalus

Originally posted by B.H.

Br. Andalus wrote:

 

Greetings.

Before I continue, I was hoping for more clarity.

So you agree that someone told the Muslims to do something, which was related to having sex on the evenings of Ramadan.

You believe that the Muslims followed some other source.

You believe that this act was the sin (not having sex with their wives during the evenings at Ramadan), and Allah forgave them for this act (not having sex with their wives on Ramadan).

Does this sum up yuor belief?

 

Yes, the Muslims were being deceived into believing something was Allah's will that was not in fact the case.  The Prophet refuted the false doctrine by telling the people they could have relations with their wives at night during the fast.

One more item.

How do you know what the prophet stated? Where did you get his statement from?

I got it from reading the Holy Quran.

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Quote Andalus Replybullet Posted: 05 October 2006 at 11:11pm
Originally posted by B.H.

Originally posted by Andalus

Originally posted by B.H.

Br. Andalus wrote:

 

Greetings.

Before I continue, I was hoping for more clarity.

So you agree that someone told the Muslims to do something, which was related to having sex on the evenings of Ramadan.

You believe that the Muslims followed some other source.

You believe that this act was the sin (not having sex with their wives during the evenings at Ramadan), and Allah forgave them for this act (not having sex with their wives on Ramadan).

Does this sum up yuor belief?

 

Yes, the Muslims were being deceived into believing something was Allah's will that was not in fact the case.  The Prophet refuted the false doctrine by telling the people they could have relations with their wives at night during the fast.

One more item.

How do you know what the prophet stated? Where did you get his statement from?

I got it from reading the Holy Quran.

So may I assume that you feel the Quran is the word of the Prophet or the word of Allah?

Although you might feel I am nit picking, or wrestling with nuances, I want to make sure I am clear, given the disparity between many from your line of thinking (ideology), I am trying to avoid presumptions.

There is a difference between saying that the Quran is the word of Allah and the word of the prophet vs, the word of Allah transmitted and taught by the prophet.

The verse in question is Allah delaing with the believers, as far as I can see?

(I am only seeking clarity so I do not make assumptions about your beliefs prior to my reply that I shall contribute)

Thanks

A feeling of discouragement when you slip up is a sure sign that you put your faith in deeds. -Ibn 'Ata'llah
http://www.sunnipath.com
http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/
http://www.pt-go.com/
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Quote Alwardah Replybullet Posted: 06 October 2006 at 3:52am

As Salamu Alaikum

 

I am now truly lost of words, BH and I am not sure how to reply to your comments, so I am not going to reply point by point, it will serve no purpose.

 

For me and many like me, the way to worship Allah Subhanahu wa Taala is to refer to the Glorious Qur'an and Sunnah. The details not found in the Glorious Qur'an are found in the Sunnah. Simple.

 

You prefer to take the opinion of men, I prefer to take from the teachings of our Prophet (Sallallahu Alayhi wa Sallam). A MAJOR DIFFERENCE in our understanding of Islamic Shariah and practicing our Islamic duties.

 

Maybe I am wrong, but from what you have said, I assume that you do not pray your Salah like mainstream Muslims. The five pillars of Islam are from the Sunnah not Glorious Qur'an as you so rightly pointed out and the way to pray is also from the Sunnah. So, please you show me from the Qur'an the complete manner of Salah. How should I establish the Prayer? Allah say Iqamat-as-salat  HOW??????????

 

I already quoted two out of the many Ayah from Glorious Qur'an where Allah Subhanahu wa Taala orders us to obey His Messenger (Sallallahu Alayhi wa Sallam). How do you obey the Prophet (Sallallahu Alayhi wa Sallam) today? How do you implement the Ayah referring to the Prophet (Sallallahu Alayhi wa Sallam) in your daily life? Do you just ignore them?

 

All I can read from your response is that it is : Again, this is yet to be proven. 

 

If I followed your way of thinking that I can easily ask that it still has to be proven that the Glorious Qur'an is from Allah. What prove to you have that it is 100% from Allah Subhanahu wa Ta’ala. Audho Billahe minash Shaitanir-Rajim! Do you see how dangerous this way of thinking really is?

 

I would like to add only one more point in conclusion: None of us who believe that the Islamic Shariah is based on the Glorious Qur'an and Sunnah ever claim that the Qur'an and Hadith are on par.  We believe without a shadow of doubt that The Glorious Qur'an is Flawless and Allah Subhanahu wa Ta’ala has promised to protect it till the Day of Resurrection, with regard to the Sunnah; the most authentic of these are the collection of Al-Bukhari and Muslim; we refer to these books and the books of the renowned scholars who travel thousands of miles to confirm a Hadith. We accept that there are differences but not on major issues. We believe in the information that was passed down to us, thru the eminent scholars. We truly believe this is the way Allah Subhanahu wa Ta’ala commanded us to worship HIM so there is no need for us to look for further PROOF.

 

REMEMBER ONLY ALLAH IS PERFECT

 

May Allah Subhanahu wa Taala accept our Ibadah during this Blessed Month. Ameen!

 

Wa Alaikum Salam

 

 

 

“Verily your Lord is quick in punishment; yet He is indeed Oft-Forgiving Most Merciful (Surah Al-An’am 6:165)
"Indeed, we belong to Allah and to Him is our return" (Surah Baqarah 2: 155)
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Quote B.H. Replybullet Posted: 06 October 2006 at 6:08am
Originally posted by Andalus

Originally posted by B.H.

Originally posted by Andalus

Originally posted by B.H.

Br. Andalus wrote:

 

Greetings.

Before I continue, I was hoping for more clarity.

So you agree that someone told the Muslims to do something, which was related to having sex on the evenings of Ramadan.

You believe that the Muslims followed some other source.

You believe that this act was the sin (not having sex with their wives during the evenings at Ramadan), and Allah forgave them for this act (not having sex with their wives on Ramadan).

Does this sum up yuor belief?

 

Yes, the Muslims were being deceived into believing something was Allah's will that was not in fact the case.  The Prophet refuted the false doctrine by telling the people they could have relations with their wives at night during the fast.

One more item.

How do you know what the prophet stated? Where did you get his statement from?

I got it from reading the Holy Quran.

So may I assume that you feel the Quran is the word of the Prophet or the word of Allah?

Although you might feel I am nit picking, or wrestling with nuances, I want to make sure I am clear, given the disparity between many from your line of thinking (ideology), I am trying to avoid presumptions.

There is a difference between saying that the Quran is the word of Allah and the word of the prophet vs, the word of Allah transmitted and taught by the prophet.

The verse in question is Allah delaing with the believers, as far as I can see?

(I am only seeking clarity so I do not make assumptions about your beliefs prior to my reply that I shall contribute)

Thanks

 

Allah told the prophet what to say to the Muslims.

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Quote B.H. Replybullet Posted: 06 October 2006 at 9:23am
Originally posted by Alwardah

As Salamu Alaikum

I am now truly lost of words, BH and I am not sure how to reply to your comments, so I am not going to reply point by point, it will serve no purpose.

For me and many like me, the way to worship Allah Subhanahu wa Taala is to refer to the Glorious Qur'an and Sunnah. The details not found in the Glorious Qur'an are found in the Sunnah. Simple.

You prefer to take the opinion of men, I prefer to take from the teachings of our Prophet (Sallallahu Alayhi wa Sallam). A MAJOR DIFFERENCE in our understanding of Islamic Shariah and practicing our Islamic duties.

Maybe I am wrong, but from what you have said, I assume that you do not pray your Salah like mainstream Muslims. The five pillars of Islam are from the Sunnah not Glorious Qur'an as you so rightly pointed out and the way to pray is also from the Sunnah. So, please you show me from the Qur'an the complete manner of Salah. How should I establish the Prayer? Allah say Iqamat-as-salat  HOW??????????

I already quoted two out of the many Ayah from Glorious Qur'an where Allah Subhanahu wa Taala orders us to obey His Messenger (Sallallahu Alayhi wa Sallam). How do you obey the Prophet (Sallallahu Alayhi wa Sallam) today? How do you implement the Ayah referring to the Prophet (Sallallahu Alayhi wa Sallam) in your daily life? Do you just ignore them?

All I can read from your response is that it is : Again, this is yet to be proven. 

 

If I followed your way of thinking that I can easily ask that it still has to be proven that the Glorious Qur'an is from Allah. What prove to you have that it is 100% from Allah Subhanahu wa Ta’ala. Audho Billahe minash Shaitanir-Rajim! Do you see how dangerous this way of thinking really is?

I would like to add only one more point in conclusion: None of us who believe that the Islamic Shariah is based on the Glorious Qur'an and Sunnah ever claim that the Qur'an and Hadith are on par.  We believe without a shadow of doubt that The Glorious Qur'an is Flawless and Allah Subhanahu wa Ta’ala has promised to protect it till the Day of Resurrection, with regard to the Sunnah; the most authentic of these are the collection of Al-Bukhari and Muslim; we refer to these books and the books of the renowned scholars who travel thousands of miles to confirm a Hadith. We accept that there are differences but not on major issues. We believe in the information that was passed down to us, thru the eminent scholars. We truly believe this is the way Allah Subhanahu wa Ta’ala commanded us to worship HIM so there is no need for us to look for further PROOF.

REMEMBER ONLY ALLAH IS PERFECT

May Allah Subhanahu wa Taala accept our Ibadah during this Blessed Month. Ameen!

Wa Alaikum Salam

 

 

 

 

What you find in the Holy Quran is what you are required to do.  Anything that you are commaned to do and not given the precise instruction on how do to it is a matter of opinion that is solved through consultation.

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