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Quran & Sunnah
 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : Religion - Islam : Quran & Sunnah
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fatima
 
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Quote fatima Replybullet Posted: 22 September 2006 at 10:37pm

Bismillah irrahman irrahim

Assalamu alaikum

My brother in islam, The Holy Quran is only the word of Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala. It has nothing much personal about Sayyidina Muhammad sallallahu alaihe wassalam. I heard a scholar once saying, if you read Holy Quran, you feel it more to be Book regarding Musa alaihis salaam rather than Sayyidina Muhammad sallallahu alaihe wassalam. But then again alhamdulillah we got quite authentic collection of ahadith and sirah books.

wassalam

Say: (O Muhammad) If you love Allah, then follow me, Allah will love you and forgive you your faults, and Allah is Forgiving, MercifuL
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Andalus
 
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Quote Andalus Replybullet Posted: 25 September 2006 at 6:48pm

Originally posted by B.H.

You obey Allah and the Prophet by obeying what they say in the Quran.

2:187

187. It is made lawful for you to have sexual relations with your wives on the night of As-Saum (the fasts). They are Lības [i.e. body cover, or screen, or Sakan, (i.e. you enjoy the pleasure of living with her - as in Verse 7:189) Tafsir At-Tabarī], for you and you are the same for them. Allāh knows that you used to deceive yourselves, so He turned to you (accepted your repentance) and forgave you. So now have sexual relations with them and seek that which Allāh has ordained for you (offspring), and eat and drink until the white thread (light) of dawn appears to you distinct from the black thread (darkness of night), then complete your Saum (fast) till the nightfall. And do not have sexual relations with them (your wives) while you are in I'tikāf (i.e. confining oneself in a mosque for prayers and invocations leaving the worldly activities) in the mosques. These are the limits (set) by Allāh, so approach them not. Thus does Allāh make clear His Ayāt (proofs, evidences, lessons, signs, revelations, verses, laws, legal and illegal things, Allāh's set limits, orders, etc.) to mankind that they may become Al-Muttaqūn (the pious - see V.2:2).

The prohibition referred to in this verse (underlined) that Allah has removed is not mentioned in the Quran.

1) The order was given by the Prophet (saw)

2) The order is not part of the recited "wahy" (revelation)

3) The followers obeyed it, as if it had been part of the recited "wahy".

This proves:

a) not every command came through the recited wahy, and b) the Prophet (saw) gave commands, that were given by Allah, and were binding, as if it were in the recited wahy.

So this is a case where Muslims followed what Allah and His mesenger stated, and it was not in the Quran.

Therefore:

Following Allah and His messenger does not mean following only the Quran. 

A feeling of discouragement when you slip up is a sure sign that you put your faith in deeds. -Ibn 'Ata'llah
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B.H.
 
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Quote B.H. Replybullet Posted: 29 September 2006 at 7:50pm
Originally posted by Andalus

Originally posted by B.H.

You obey Allah and the Prophet by obeying what they say in the Quran.

2:187

187. It is made lawful for you to have sexual relations with your wives on the night of As-Saum (the fasts). They are Lības [i.e. body cover, or screen, or Sakan, (i.e. you enjoy the pleasure of living with her - as in Verse 7:189) Tafsir At-Tabarī], for you and you are the same for them. Allāh knows that you used to deceive yourselves, so He turned to you (accepted your repentance) and forgave you. So now have sexual relations with them and seek that which Allāh has ordained for you (offspring), and eat and drink until the white thread (light) of dawn appears to you distinct from the black thread (darkness of night), then complete your Saum (fast) till the nightfall. And do not have sexual relations with them (your wives) while you are in I'tikāf (i.e. confining oneself in a mosque for prayers and invocations leaving the worldly activities) in the mosques. These are the limits (set) by Allāh, so approach them not. Thus does Allāh make clear His Ayāt (proofs, evidences, lessons, signs, revelations, verses, laws, legal and illegal things, Allāh's set limits, orders, etc.) to mankind that they may become Al-Muttaqūn (the pious - see V.2:2).

The prohibition referred to in this verse (underlined) that Allah has removed is not mentioned in the Quran.

1) The order was given by the Prophet (saw)

2) The order is not part of the recited "wahy" (revelation)

3) The followers obeyed it, as if it had been part of the recited "wahy".

This proves:

a) not every command came through the recited wahy, and b) the Prophet (saw) gave commands, that were given by Allah, and were binding, as if it were in the recited wahy.

So this is a case where Muslims followed what Allah and His mesenger stated, and it was not in the Quran.

Therefore:

Following Allah and His messenger does not mean following only the Quran. 

 

 

thank you very much for your kind reply.

 

I hope you are doing well Andalus.

 

I do not see where the text supports your idea.  The way I see it, the Prophet was correcting a false doctrine being taught without authority.  Some people were saying it was a sin to sleep with their wives the night of the fasts, which Allah never commanded be done.  The Prophet isn't invalidating an old command from Allah at all ,but refuting a false doctrine.

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fatima
 
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Quote fatima Replybullet Posted: 30 September 2006 at 5:31am

Bismillah irrahman irrahim

Assalamu alaikum

Lets take example from our daily lives, when a new born is born, there are few things done to bring him under the shade of islam. The adhan, shaving off head and paying amount equal to its weight to poor and aqiqah. If Allah subhbanahu wa ta'ala has only granted the new soul a limited time then adhan becomes very important as you dont pray funeral if adhan is not done.  Child growing up, when does he or she needs to start covering up awrah and what is awrah for each and who does it differ for. When do they need to start praying and fasting? I can not find any of this in detail in Holy Quran, all of the ruling concerning these issues are from ahadith.

Take prayer, Holy Quran merely tells the timings, its raka'at, different parts and what to recite in each part all this is understood through ahadith. Zakaah and its details, and so many other rulings that come from ahadith. Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala gives the main orders and rulings in Holy Quran and it was Sayyidina Muhammad sallallahu alaihe wassalam who gave details. We are been told to follow the Messenger sallallahu alaihe wassalam but even if that was not the case, would you rather not follow a way which is proven way to please Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala?

wassalam



Edited by fatima
Say: (O Muhammad) If you love Allah, then follow me, Allah will love you and forgive you your faults, and Allah is Forgiving, MercifuL
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Quote B.H. Replybullet Posted: 30 September 2006 at 6:17am
My answer is that you follow the consensus of the community on issues that we are not given exact details on.

Edited by B.H.
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ummziba
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Quote ummziba Replybullet Posted: 30 September 2006 at 6:27am

Originally posted by B.H.

My answer is that you follow the consensus of the community on issues that we are not given exact details on.

Assalamu alaikum,

B.H., might I just comment that the consensus of the community has brought such things as legalized homosexual marriage (many countries) and females allowed to go topless (Ontario, Canada)....just to name two examples.

Sometimes the consensus of the community can be terribly misguided.  The true guidance comes from Qur'an and Sunnah of the Prophet.

Peace, ummziba

P.S. don't bother to say that neither of these examples are in so-called Muslim countries, you need not look too hard in many so-called Muslim countries to see the communities doing many un-Islamic things that there seems to be consensus about!

Sticks and stones may break my bones, but your words...they break my soul ~
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Quote B.H. Replybullet Posted: 30 September 2006 at 11:23pm
Originally posted by ummziba

Originally posted by B.H.

My answer is that you follow the consensus of the community on issues that we are not given exact details on.

Assalamu alaikum,

B.H., might I just comment that the consensus of the community has brought such things as legalized homosexual marriage (many countries) and females allowed to go topless (Ontario, Canada)....just to name two examples.

Sometimes the consensus of the community can be terribly misguided.  The true guidance comes from Qur'an and Sunnah of the Prophet.

Peace, ummziba

P.S. don't bother to say that neither of these examples are in so-called Muslim countries, you need not look too hard in many so-called Muslim countries to see the communities doing many un-Islamic things that there seems to be consensus about!

 

Of course the consensus of the community can never allow anything explicitly forbidden in the Quran nor can it set aside clearly given instructions concerning the likes of ritual and morals.

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fatima
 
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Quote fatima Replybullet Posted: 01 October 2006 at 4:30am

Bismillah irrahman irrahim

Assalamu alaikum

B.H wrote, 'Of course the consensus of the community can never allow anything explicitly forbidden in the Quran nor can it set aside clearly given instructions concerning the likes of ritual and morals'.

Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala says in Holy Quran, '[Shakir 68:4] And most surely you conform (yourself) to sublime morality'.

So many other places when there is command of following the Messenger of Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala (sallallahu alaihe wassalam) and we can find His sunnah regarding majority of matters, then what is the reason for not following them and how would we be really following the Holy Quran if we choose to ignore some parts of it?

How can consensus of some scholars be equal or better than the decision of a Prophet when message comes to the Prophet day and night from the Supreme authority?

wassalam



Edited by fatima
Say: (O Muhammad) If you love Allah, then follow me, Allah will love you and forgive you your faults, and Allah is Forgiving, MercifuL
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