Active TopicsActive Topics  Display List of Forum MembersMemberlist  CalendarCalendar  Search The ForumSearch  HelpHelp
  RegisterRegister  LoginLogin  Old ForumOld Forum  Twitter  Facebook
Advertisement:
         

Quran & Sunnah
 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : Religion - Islam : Quran & Sunnah
Message Icon Topic: Need for Hadith Post Reply Post New Topic
<< Prev Page  of 6
Author Message
B.H.
 
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 11 June 2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 116
Quote B.H. Replybullet Posted: 10 October 2006 at 10:32pm

I find that your group has an endearing feature that deserves mention. It is a “tautological” like positioning built into its core which craftily will preserve its ideology without effort. It goes like this:

1) The Quran is the only authority

2) We follow only what is in the Quran

3) The Prophet has no relevance or authority on our religion in terms of law or religious positions unless they are found in the Quran (which goes back to 1, and makes the Prophet irrelevant) and we do not recognize a “Sunnah”, because of 1.

So for proof that the Sunnah of the Prophet (saw) had authority, one would have to show an example where his authority was considered law by Allah. But any example of his authority that is in conjunction to the Quran, would not be in the Quran. Therefore, we do not recognize it.

 

If you wish you can bring forward arguments that you feel refute this doctrine.

IP IP Logged
B.H.
 
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 11 June 2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 116
Quote B.H. Replybullet Posted: 10 October 2006 at 10:37pm

Now let’s look at my interpretation.

The believers were supposed to abstain from relations from their spouses on the nights of Ramadan. Some were having trouble with this, and so that had relations anyway, “……Allâh knows that you used to deceive yourselves…” Knowing they were wrong and in error, they turned to Allah to seek His forgiveness, “…so He turned to you (accepted your repentance) and forgave you”. As a mercy to these people, Allah then allowed believers to partake in relations and drink and eat freely without stipulation at night, “So now have sexual relations with them and seek that which Allâh has ordained for you (offspring), and eat and drink until the white thread (light) of dawn appears to you distinct from the black thread (darkness of night), then complete your Saum (fast) till the nightfall…”.

Since the Quran does not contain any details about this event, and there is no mention of any restrictions on the nights of Ramadan, one must ask the question: Who gave the order? The answer is, Allah gave the order, and the Prophet (saw) spoke it, and because it was not a part of the recited revelation, does not take away from its place in religious law. If not this scenario, then who, Abu Jahl, or Abu sufyan? Or maybe Zaid? Who? Who else would the Muslims have listened to? And is it the case that the believers had trouble being tempted with abstinence? And then had a hard time with intimacy and required Allah to step in and tell them that this was an act they should be doing?

I believe you will find any reason to object, even if it requires funny interpretations, simply to save that one guiding principle your group follows blindly: Only in the Quran. That principle gives a great deal of freedom to interpret the Quran in a very loose way, and that is part of the secret of that “tautological like” feature.  

Kindest Regards

 

You have stated your opinion and I have stated mine. I stand by the position that some of the early Muslims somehow got the false idea they could not have sex with their wives during the nights of Ramadan and Allah, seeing that they were cheating themselves, instructed the Prophet to tell them that it was permissable.



Edited by B.H.
IP IP Logged
Andalus
 
Moderator Group
Moderator Group


Joined: 12 October 2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1187
Quote Andalus Replybullet Posted: 11 October 2006 at 7:08pm
Originally posted by B.H.

I find that your group has an endearing feature that deserves mention. It is a “tautological” like positioning built into its core which craftily will preserve its ideology without effort. It goes like this:

1) The Quran is the only authority

2) We follow only what is in the Quran

3) The Prophet has no relevance or authority on our religion in terms of law or religious positions unless they are found in the Quran (which goes back to 1, and makes the Prophet irrelevant) and we do not recognize a “Sunnah”, because of 1.

So for proof that the Sunnah of the Prophet (saw) had authority, one would have to show an example where his authority was considered law by Allah. But any example of his authority that is in conjunction to the Quran, would not be in the Quran. Therefore, we do not recognize it.

 

If you wish you can bring forward arguments that you feel refute this doctrine.

What I gave was an argument. You can disagree, or agree, or show why it is wrong.

The last time I checked, your school of thought is "anti-scholarship", and as of to date, there is not solid, guiding, uniform doctrine.

Kindest regards

A feeling of discouragement when you slip up is a sure sign that you put your faith in deeds. -Ibn 'Ata'llah
http://www.sunnipath.com
http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/
http://www.pt-go.com/
IP IP Logged
Andalus
 
Moderator Group
Moderator Group


Joined: 12 October 2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1187
Quote Andalus Replybullet Posted: 11 October 2006 at 7:20pm
Originally posted by B.H.

Now let’s look at my interpretation.

The believers were supposed to abstain from relations from their spouses on the nights of Ramadan. Some were having trouble with this, and so that had relations anyway, “……Allâh knows that you used to deceive yourselves…” Knowing they were wrong and in error, they turned to Allah to seek His forgiveness, “…so He turned to you (accepted your repentance) and forgave you”. As a mercy to these people, Allah then allowed believers to partake in relations and drink and eat freely without stipulation at night, “So now have sexual relations with them and seek that which Allâh has ordained for you (offspring), and eat and drink until the white thread (light) of dawn appears to you distinct from the black thread (darkness of night), then complete your Saum (fast) till the nightfall…”.

Since the Quran does not contain any details about this event, and there is no mention of any restrictions on the nights of Ramadan, one must ask the question: Who gave the order? The answer is, Allah gave the order, and the Prophet (saw) spoke it, and because it was not a part of the recited revelation, does not take away from its place in religious law. If not this scenario, then who, Abu Jahl, or Abu sufyan? Or maybe Zaid? Who? Who else would the Muslims have listened to? And is it the case that the believers had trouble being tempted with abstinence? And then had a hard time with intimacy and required Allah to step in and tell them that this was an act they should be doing?

I believe you will find any reason to object, even if it requires funny interpretations, simply to save that one guiding principle your group follows blindly: Only in the Quran. That principle gives a great deal of freedom to interpret the Quran in a very loose way, and that is part of the secret of that “tautological like” feature.  

Kindest Regards

 

You have stated your opinion and I have stated mine. I stand by the position that some of the early Muslims somehow got the false idea they could not have sex with their wives during the nights of Ramadan and Allah, seeing that they were cheating themselves, instructed the Prophet to tell them that it was permissable.

One may develope numerous interpretations, and you may feel free to maintain your position. The difference is that my position falls upon sound evidence from a contextual view, a common sense view (people tempted into abstinence?), and grammatical.

I believe you are only sticking to your position, even if you use words such as , "somehow", only to validate your groups erroneous beliefs, regardless of the cost. Just my observation.

Kindest regards

A feeling of discouragement when you slip up is a sure sign that you put your faith in deeds. -Ibn 'Ata'llah
http://www.sunnipath.com
http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/
http://www.pt-go.com/
IP IP Logged
Alwardah
 
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar

Joined: 25 March 2005
Location: South Africa
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 980
Quote Alwardah Replybullet Posted: 31 October 2006 at 7:02am
As Salamu Alaikum  

During the last days of Ramadan, a friend invited us over for Iftar (breakfast).  We decided to watch the Tarawih in the Grand Masjid in Makkah on TV. It was the night the Imam completed the Qur'an. Subhanallah! Alhamdulillah! Allahu Akbar! Most incredible Scene! An Ocean of Worshipers! This is Islamic Brotherhood, Islamic Unity and the Beauty of Islam.

 

It was then that I thought about my cyber brothers and sisters on IC and other groups, who claim that there is no need for Hadith. There were millions of worshipers that night from every corner of the globe.  Every country was represented at that gathering. Can you imagine the chaos if each group followed their own consensus and not the Sunnah?

 

This Harmony and Serenity can only be achieved by practicing Islam according to the Glorious Qur'an and Sunnah.

 

Yes I agree that we do not need to implement each and every Hadith/Sunnah in our daily life but without the Sunnah we cannot worship Allah Subhanahu wa Taala the way HE commanded us to worship HIM. Not implementing some Sunnah in our daily life is one thing saying that there is NO NEED for the Sunnah is something else.  We need to differentiate the the Fard (Obligatory) Sunnah and those that are Wajib (highly recommended) and Mustahabb (encouraged)

 

I am sure many members from IC were part of the congregation in the Masjid Al-Haram during Ramadan. Insha Allah I pray we can all perform Umrah in Ramadan some time during our lifetime as an Umrah performed during Ramadan is like performing Haj. (Al-Bukhari Vol 3 No10)

 

O Allah Keep our feet firm on Your path, the Path followed by Your Last Prophet (Sallallahu Alayhi wa Sallam) and his Companions and all righteous Muslims Ameen!

 

Wa Alaikum Salam

 

 

“Verily your Lord is quick in punishment; yet He is indeed Oft-Forgiving Most Merciful (Surah Al-An’am 6:165)
"Indeed, we belong to Allah and to Him is our return" (Surah Baqarah 2: 155)
IP IP Logged
Asim-2
 
Groupie
Groupie
Avatar

Joined: 24 June 2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 96
Quote Asim-2 Replybullet Posted: 17 November 2006 at 1:24am

You may be interested in the Hadith evaluation resources and links available at 

www.geocities.com/asimiqbal2nd/hadeeth.htm and it also gives many Qur'anic Ayaat on the issue with clear highlighting, and clear arrangement according to subject.

Also check out about a dozen links including some books on this issue.

and on predictions etc... check out :

www.geocities.com/asimiqbal2nd

Asim Iqbal 2nd :
http://asimiqbal.2.googlepages.com
http://asimiqbal.2.googlepages.com/hadeeth.htm
http://asimiqbal.2.googlepages.com/hadith2.htm

and more Masha'ALLAH!

asimiqbal2nd
IP IP Logged
<< Prev Page  of 6
Post Reply Post New Topic
Printable version Printable version

Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

Disclaimer:
The opinions expressed herein contain positions and viewpoints that are not necessarily those of IslamiCity. This forum is offered to stimulate dialogue and discussion in our continuing mission of being an educational organization.
If there is any issue with any of the postings please email to icforum at islamicity.com or if you are a forum's member you can use the report button.

Note: The 99 names of Allah avatars are courtesy of www.arthafez.com

Advertisement:



Sponsored by:
Islamicity Membership Program:
IslamiCity Donation Program  http://www.islamicity.com/Donate
IslamiCity Arabic eLearning http://www.islamiCity.com/ArabAcademy
Complete Domain & Hosting Solutions www.icDomain.com
Home for Muslim Tunes www.icTunes.com
Islamic Video Collections www.islamiTV.com
IslamiCity Marriage Site www.icMarriage.com