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minuteman
 
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Quote minuteman Replybullet Posted: 30 March 2007 at 8:55pm

 

 

For from the face of destructions they fled, From the face of a stretched-out sword, And from the face of a trodden bow, And from the face of the grievousness of battle.

For thus said the Lord unto me: `Within a year, as years of a hireling, Consumed hath been all the honour of Kedar.

And the remnant of the number of bow-men, The mighty of the sons of Kedar are few, For Jehovah, God of Israel, hath spoken!'

(Bible: Old Testament: Isaiah 21: 6-17)

The above posted by one friend clearly points to the migration of Hazrat Muhammad (in peace) from Makkah to madinah under fear of being killed.

The last few words point to the utter defeat of the Quraesh of Makkah at the battlefield of Badr in year 02 after hijrah. It is telling that the powerful strong men of the Quresh (Kedar) will be greatly reduced within a year.


 

If any one is bad some one must suffer
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mochiah
 
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Quote mochiah Replybullet Posted: 31 March 2007 at 6:32am

No the above is wrong:

Yeshayahu - Chapter 21

with commentary of Rashi (Rabbi Shlomo Yitzchaki)

(1040-1105 C.E.)

 

1. The harsh prophecy of the western desert; like tempests in an arid land, to pass, coming from the desert, from an awesome land.

The harsh prophecy of the western desert This prophecy refers to Babylonia, as is delineated therein. If you ask, Did he not already prophesy about it (supra 13): "On a tranquil mountain raise a banner," and the entire chapter? sometimes the prophecy comes into his mouth today in one manner, and later in another manner.

The harsh prophecy of the western desert Jonathan paraphrases: A harsh prophecy concerning the armies that come from the desert, as numerous as the waters of the sea.

like tempests in arid land, to pass Like a tempest that whirls in an arid land, that raises much dust.

to pass So will many camps pass to come upon Babylon.

from the desert they shall come to them (lit.. to her).

from an awesome land Jonathan renders: From a land where mighty deeds have been performed. It is also possible to explain that it is a place of snakes and scorpions, as it is said (Deut. 8:15): "The great and awesome desert."

2. A harsh prophecy was told to me; The traitor shall be betrayed and the plunderer shall be plundered; march, O Elam, Besiege, O Media! All sighs have I brought to an end.

A harsh prophecy The prophet says, "This harsh prophecy concerning Babylon was told to me."

the traitor shall be betrayed Jonathan renders: The robbers are robbed and the plunderers are plundered. The Hebrew wording, according to the Targum, is to be explained thus: The traitor another will come and betray him; and the plunderer another will come and plunder him. These are Persia and Media, who rob and plunder Babylon, who, until now plundered and robbed all the countries.

march, Elam and come upon them (lit., her).

besiege, O Media (). I.e., besiege Babylon with a siege. Comp. (II Sam. 22:3) "God is my rock ()." The accent is on the latter syllable, on the "resh," whereas, in this case, the accent is on the first syllable, like "rise ()", "return ()."

all sighs have I brought to an end (). (This is) not (spelled with a) "Mappiq heh," (which would mean "her sigh") for this is like "all sighs in the world," and it is an expression denoting a great sigh of many people (sospiradic in O.F.). All sighs have I brought to an end, for the world was sighing because of the yoke of the kingdom of Babylon; now I have brought it to an end.

3. Therefore, my loins are filled with trembling; pangs have seized me like the pangs of a woman in labor; I have become confused from hearing; I have become frightened from hearing.

my loins are filled with trembling The prophet is merciful and sighs over the retribution meted out to the nations. This is the Midrash Aggadah (Tan., beginning of Balak). According to its simple meaning, however, the prophet is reciting the lamentation and the mourning as though this were Babylonia lamenting.

pangs (), an expression denoting trembling and pains. And our Rabbis said: A woman has doors and hinges () on her womb just as the doors of a house have hinges (Bechoroth 45a).

I became confused This is a malady known as , convulsions, in the language of the Sages.

4. My heart has strayed; fright has terrified me; the evening of my desire He has made for me into trembling.

fright (). fright.

the evening of my desire The night that I longed for, for rejoicing and for a banquet. In the Book of Josipon we find that he was happy since his troops had defeated the army of Persia. (Book 1, ch. 5) That night He made for me into trembling, as it is said (Dan. 5:1): "King Belshazzar made a great feast They drank wine(verse 4). On that very night, King Belshazzar was slain(verse 30)." (6:1) "And Darius the Mede received the kingdom."

5. Setting the table, setting up the lamp, eating, drinking; "Arise, princes, anoint a shield!"

setting up the lamp (), Set up the lamp. In Gen. Rabbah (63:14) we learn that people call a lamp .

eating, drinking And in the midst of the eating and the drinking, they cried, "Arise, princes!"

anoint a shield They were shields of boiled leather, and they would anoint them with oil so that the weapons would glide off. The same is mentioned concerning Saul (II Sam. 1:21): "For there the shield of the mighty was rejected." It rejected its anointing and did not absorb it, and Sauls shield became as though it was not anointed with oil.

6. For so has the Lord said to me, "Go, set up the lookout; what he sees he will tell.

Go set up the lookout One of your disciples is destined to complain about My attribute, concerning the long prosperity of Babylon, and that was Habakkuk who made a circle and stood inside it, and said (Habakkuk 2:1), "On my watch will I stand, and I will look out to see what He will speak within me." Said the Holy One, blessed be He, "Put up that lookout and promise him in My Name that he will stand on his watch and what he sees in the downfall of Babylon he will tell."

7. And he shall see a chariot with a pair of riders; one riding a horse and one riding a camel, and he shall listen attentively.

And he shall see a chariot and I will show him there a sort of chariot with a pair of riders, one riding a donkey and one riding a camel, and that is a sign of Persia and Media.

and he shall listen attentively And there he shall hear in his prophecy a representation of the mighty rumbling and stirring of armies.

8. And the lion called, "On the watchtower, O Lord, I always stand by day, and on my watch I stand all the nights.

And the lion called That is Habakkuk. (lion) has the same numerical value as Habakkuk. Isaiah prophesied that Habakkuk was destined to pray for this and say the following.

on the watchtower, O Lord O Lord, my God, I always stand on the watchtower to inform me about this.

9. And behold this is coming, a chariot of men, a pair of riders." And he called out and said, "Babylon has fallen, yea, it has fallen, and all its graven idols he has dashed to the earth."

And behold this is coming When he prays concerning this, he will see sort of a chariot of men, etc.

Babylon has fallen, yea, it has fallen Jonathan renders: Has fallen and is also destined to fall. This denotes two downfalls in two consecutive years, first through Media and Persia, and in the second year, through Heaven, as it is stated (supra 13:19): "And Babylon, the beauty of the kingdoms, the glory of the pride of the Chaldees, shall be like Gods overturning of Sodom" And so we find in Seder Olam (ch. 28): And in that year the news came concerning Darius, and after him, in the year, the news, "And Babylon, the beauty of the kingdoms shall be like the overturning, etc." (supra 13:19).

10. My threshed grain and the product of my threshing floor. What I heard from the Lord of Hosts, the God of Israel, I have related to you.

My threshed grain and the product of my threshing floor My hallowed grain, the stack of wheat which I was commanded by the Holy Spirit to rectify you and lead you on the straight path, like a man who threshes and winnows his grain on the threshing floor.

What I heard from Him I have related to you.

11. The harsh prophecy of Dumah: To me one calls from Seir, "Watchman, what will be of the night? Watchman, what will be of the night?"

The harsh prophecy of Dumah That is Edom, and so does Scripture say (Ezekiel 27:32): "Who is like Tyre, like Dumah in the midst of the sea?"

To Me one calls from Seir Said the Holy One, blessed be He: "To Me the prophet or the angel calls from the yoke of the kingdom of Seir."

Watchman, what will be of the night? Watcher of Israel, what will be of this night and this darkness?

12. Said the watchman, "Morning has come, and also night. If you will request, request. Return and come."

Said the watchman The Holy One, blessed be He.

Morning has come I have the ability to make the morning shine for you.

and also night is prepared for the wicked at the time of the end.

if you will request, request If you make your request to hasten the end of the exile.

return and come in repentance.

13. The harsh prophecy concerning Arabia: In the forest in Arabia did you lodge, on the roads of your cousins.

The harsh prophecy concerning Arabia About the Arabs.

In the forest in Arabia did you lodge I saw what you did when Assyria exiled my people, and they begged their captors to lead them through your land, since you are the descendants of their uncles, perhaps you would have mercy on them, and you were going out and lodging in the forest, the road where the caravans pass.

the roads of your cousins the children of your uncle.

14. Toward the thirsty they bring water; the inhabitants of the land of Tema with his bread they came before the wanderer.

Toward the thirsty it is customary to bring water, but you, the inhabitants of the land of Tema, did not do so, but with his bread they came before the wanderer; they brought them sorts of salty foods and blown up flasks full of air, and he would eat and ask to drink, and he would put the opening of the flask into his mouth, and the air would go into his innards, and he would die. Another explanation of "Toward the thirsty they bring water," is as follows: I did not do so to your forefather, Ishmael; when he was thirsty, I revealed to him a well of water.

Since because of the swords they wandered (I.e.,) my people (wandered).

the outstretched sword () , spread over the surface of the earth, as (I Sam. 30:16) "And behold, they were scattered () over the entire landscape," (II Sam. 5:18) "And spread out () in the Valley of Rephaim." Another explanation is that is like , sharp. All letters whose sources are close to being from one place, (i.e., from one speech organ,) are interchangeable with one another, the nun with the lamed, as in the case stated (in Nehemiah 13:7): "To make him a chamber ()," like .

15. For, because of the swords they wandered; because of the outstretched sword, because of the bent bow, and because of the pressure of war.

16. For so has the Lord said to me: "In another year, like the days of a hireling, all the glory of Kedar shall terminate.

like the year of a hireling I will be exact with them to limit the time like a hireling, hired by years, who is exact with the time of the completion of his year.

17. And the rest of the number of the bows of the heroes of the children of Kedar shall decrease, for the Lord, the God of Israel has spoken."

And the rest the remnant.

the bows of the heroes of the children of Kedar Archers, for they are like their forefather, (Ishmael,) about whom it is stated (Gen. 21: 2): "And he was an archer."

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Sawtul Khilafah
 
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Quote Sawtul Khilafah Replybullet Posted: 31 March 2007 at 7:10am
Originally posted by mochiah

No the above is wrong:

7. And he shall see a chariot with a pair of riders; one riding a horse and one riding a camel, and he shall listen attentively.

And he shall see a chariot and I will show him there a sort of chariot with a pair of riders, one riding a donkey and one riding a camel, and that is a sign of Persia and Media.

No, You are wrong. The riders dont all represent Persian and Media only the rider on the horse does (and he is Cyrus/ZulQarnayn).

In fact, if you read the prophecy CAREFULLY you will see that it goes on to give detail regarding these three. It mentions the fall of babylon by Persia (rider on horse) the one who will come from seir and shall return (Jesus who we know will return and who rode a Donkey) and riding on camel from Arabia.

Originally posted by mochiah

14. Toward the thirsty they bring water; the inhabitants of the land of Tema with his bread they came before the wanderer.

Toward the thirsty it is customary to bring water, but you, the inhabitants of the land of Tema, did not do so, but with his bread they came before the wanderer; they brought them sorts of salty foods and blown up flasks full of air, and he would eat and ask to drink, and he would put the opening of the flask into his mouth, and the air would go into his innards, and he would die. Another explanation of "Toward the thirsty they bring water," is as follows: I did not do so to your forefather, Ishmael; when he was thirsty, I revealed to him a well of water.

What ????? Where do you get the idea that they DIDNT bring food and water ? It certainly doesnt say that in the prophecy.

And if you study the history of Islam you will see that this is the exact story of Prophet Mohammad (pbuh) who along with his companion Abu Bakr, went to Madinah from Makkah because the Makkans were trying to kill him.

And then the Arabs in Madinah brought him food and water and joined him and converted to Islam.

Originally posted by mochiah

15. For, because of the swords they wandered; because of the outstretched sword, because of the bent bow, and because of the pressure of war.

16. For so has the Lord said to me: "In another year, like the days of a hireling, all the glory of Kedar shall terminate.

17. And the rest of the number of the bows of the heroes of the children of Kedar shall decrease, for the Lord, the God of Israel has spoken."

The prophet Mohammad (pbuh) left Makkah after it's people (Kedar Arabs) planned to kill him but later with the Muslims of Madinah (Tema) he defeated the pagan Arabs of Makkah and later returned to Makkah and it's people surrendered and Makkah was taken over by Muslims.

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Quote mochiah Replybullet Posted: 31 March 2007 at 7:18am
 

13. The harsh prophecy concerning Arabia: In the forest in Arabia did you lodge, on the roads of your cousins.

The harsh prophecy concerning Arabia About the Arabs.

In the forest in Arabia did you lodge I saw what you did when Assyria exiled my people, and they begged their captors to lead them through your land, since you are the descendants of their uncles, perhaps you would have mercy on them, and you were going out and lodging in the forest, the road where the caravans pass.

the roads of your cousins the children of your uncle.



Edited by mochiah
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mochiah
 
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Quote mochiah Replybullet Posted: 31 March 2007 at 7:23am
Ps: sawtul iminterested to know why you asked me the question in messiah in judaisme. where you asked about the ring
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Quote mochiah Replybullet Posted: 31 March 2007 at 7:32am

Just a question if you are fighting in the way of allah isnt victory guaranteed?

Why has victory been guaranteed to the children of israel? Maybe we are in the end of days when g*d comes back to Israel.

 

Yechezkiel - Chapter 35

1. Then the word of the Lord came to me, saying:
2. "Son of man, direct your face toward Mount Seir and prophesy over it.
3. And you shall say to it: So said the Lord God: Behold I am against you, O Mount Seir, and I shall stretch forth My hand upon you and make you desolate and waste.
4. I shall lay your cities waste, and you will be desolate, and you will know that I am the Lord.
5. Because you had everlasting hatred, and you hurled the children of Israel by the sword, on the day of their misfortune at the time of the end of their iniquity.
6. Therefore, as I live, says the Lord God, for I shall make you into blood, and blood will pursue you; for surely you hated blood, and blood will pursue you.
7. And I shall make Mount Seir into desolation and waste, and I shall cut off from you anyone passing through or returning.
8. And I shall fill his mountains with his slain, your hills and your dales and all your streams-those slain by the sword will fall in them.
9. I shall make you everlasting desolations, and your cities will not return, and you will know that I am the Lord.
10. Because you said, "The two nations and the two lands will be mine, and we shall inherit it," and the Lord was there,
11. Therefore, as I live, says the Lord God, I shall commit [acts] like your wrath and like your [acts of] anger that you did out of your hatred for them, and I shall be known among them when I judge you.
12. And you will know that I am the Lord. I heard all your blasphemies that you said concerning the mountains of Israel, saying, "They have become desolate; they were given to us to devour."
13. You have magnified yourselves against Me with your mouth, and you have multiplied your words against Me; I have heard.
14. So said the Lord God: When the whole earth rejoices, I shall make you desolate.
15. As you rejoiced over the inheritance of the house of Israel because it became desolate, so will I do to you; Mount Seir and all Edom will be desolate, even all of it, and they will know that I am the Lord.



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Quote mochiah Replybullet Posted: 31 March 2007 at 7:37am
Koran 17:104: Then We said to the Israelites: 'Dwell in the land. When the promise of the hereafter comes to be fulfilled, We shall assemble you all together.'
 
 
43 44 45

"We sent not any before thee except men to whom we revealed: Question the People of the Remembrance [Children fo Israel], if it should be that you do not know -- with the clear signs, and the Psalms, and We have sent down to thee Remembrance [Qur'an] that thou [Muslims] mayest make clear to mankind what was sent down to them [Israelites]" ---Do they, who (in defiance of Gods grace) devise evil schemes, feel safe and secure that God will not cause the earth to swallow them, or that the punishment will not befall them without their perceiving whence it has come?


[Qur'an, "The Bee", chapter 16:43-45].


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Quote Sawtul Khilafah Replybullet Posted: 31 March 2007 at 7:39am

And he said, The LORD came from Sinai, and rose up from Seir unto them; he shined forth from mount Paran, and he came with ten thousands of saints: from his right hand went a fiery law for them. (Deuteronomy 33:2)

 

Seir is a reference to Jesus (pbuh). It is usually associated with the chain of mountains West and South of the Dead Sea extending through Jerusalem, and Bethlehem, the birthplace of Jesus (pbuh). It was later extended to include the mountains on the East side as well (Dictionary of the Bible, John L. McKenzie, S.J., p. 783). [...] Prophet Moses (pbuh) never in his lifetime entered Palestine, and thus, this could not be a reference to him.

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