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Duende

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Senior Member

Joined: 27 July 2005
Location: Spain
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 651

Posted: 19 March 2007 at 7:52am

Al-Kafir, please read the post. These are polls conducted by CNN and
New York Times/CBS News polls.

I knew (since you are so predictable) that the source would draw
negative commentary from you, and I included it only to elicit such a
response. It is amusing, you see.

It's not my fault Prisonplanet turned up as the most succinct source,
once again: don't blame the messenger, read the message.

It is obvious you are firmly committed to the official story/
propaganda, I am firmly committed to knowing the truth which
unfortunately shall never come from the official sources.

I will gladly take your encouragement, offered in such a paternalistic/
sarcastic tone, coming as it does from one so far ahead of me
intellectually and morally.

I also encourage you to continue living your life with your head stuck
in the sand, gladly swallowing the propaganda fed to you, just refrain
from forcing your own limited viewpoint on the rest of us. Fox/
Murdoch/Washington Post et al are already doing that: bombarding
us with the same precision as the US military.

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Servetus
Male Christian
Senior Member
Senior Member

Joined: 04 April 2001
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2097

Posted: 19 March 2007 at 9:44am

Originally posted by Above, Al-kafir

... It's an exercise in futility dealing with self created victims. Gag a zealot. Shake a shiny object before his crazed eyes to get his attention. Calmly delineate in simple declarative sentences of user-friendly monosyllables a logical progression of facts, science and demonstration. Nod reassuringly. Slowly remove the gag. It is inevitable that the zealot will defiantly screech and sputter something as cogent as ...

Ok, call it the makings of a thinly and thus badly disguised conspiracy and call in the Ministry of Truth and the Warren Commission to clear things up, but I suspect that, contrary to so-called official reports which might say otherwise, Al-Kafir and RuggedTouch are, if not repeating the same instructions from Pavlov, then at least sharing the same I-Pod.

Originally posted by RuggedTouch

… It's an exercise in futility, I’m afraid. Gag a zealot. Shake a shiny object before his crazed eyes to get his attention. Calmly delineate in simple declarative sentences of user-friendly monosyllables a logical progression of folly from wacky conspiracy theories to their self inflicted gaffs and blunders. Nod reassuringly. Slowly remove the gag. It is inevitable that one of the zealots you mentioned will defiantly screech and sputter something as cogent as … (source: http://www.islamicity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=7360& ;KW=declarative)

This, in one of those at first seemingly unrelated events which often links broader conspiracies, or at least seems to, is what happened to a troll once up in Norway, or some such place:

“Who’s that tramping over my bridge?” roared the troll. “It’s I! The big Billy Goat Gruff,” said the billy goat, who had an ugly hoarse voice of his own. “Now I’m coming to gobble you up,” roared the troll. Well, come along! I’ve got two spears, And I’ll poke your eyeballs out at your ears; I’ve got besides two curling-stones, and I’ll crush you to bits, body and bones.”

Serv

Ref: http://www.pitt.edu/~dash/type0122e.html

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Al-kafir

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Joined: 21 October 2006
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Posts: 34

Posted: 19 March 2007 at 3:33pm

Originally posted by Duende

Al-Kafir, please read the post. These are polls conducted by CNN and
New York Times/CBS News polls.

I knew (since you are so predictable) that the source would draw
negative commentary from you, and I included it only to elicit such a
response. It is amusing, you see.

It's not my fault Prisonplanet turned up as the most succinct source,
once again: don't blame the messenger, read the message.

It is obvious you are firmly committed to the official story/
propaganda, I am firmly committed to knowing the truth which
unfortunately shall never come from the official sources.

I will gladly take your encouragement, offered in such a paternalistic/
sarcastic tone, coming as it does from one so far ahead of me
intellectually and morally.

I also encourage you to continue living your life with your head stuck
in the sand, gladly swallowing the propaganda fed to you, just refrain
from forcing your own limited viewpoint on the rest of us. Fox/
Murdoch/Washington Post et al are already doing that: bombarding
us with the same precision as the US military.

Because you somehow missed it the first time I’ll reiterate that copying and pasting the results of polls doesn’t pass for facts. You’re enthralled with conspiracy theories because they reinforce your learned hatreds and biases.

It’s as though you embrace the inverse of reason and rationality. You operate backwards starting from a desperately desired answer then proceeding to the imaginary and invented evidence needed to prove it. In the fixed cast of the rabid conspiracy theorist the weight of endlessly repeated fantasy and conjecture is simply smothering.

There are the tabloid websites that are akin to the supermarket tabloid news rags which cater to the gullible and the easily persuaded. They drum the same story into millions of minds. The method used is always to tell one, single narrative, typically by way of answering questions with questions or just posing open ended questions and to smother any competing ideas. That is how the “less than discerning” are able to convince themselves that Joooos control the world, that fantasy is reality and that personal ineptitude and failure is answered by detonating car bombs in crowded markets. Its standard cult indoctrination scaled up to millions of susceptible minds.

Edited by Al-kafir

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BMZ

Moderator Group

Joined: 03 April 2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1852

Posted: 19 March 2007 at 5:33pm

Al-kafir,

Amuse me before I say "We are not amused!" Tabloids are aplenty in London.

I am interested in knowing how Dianna did not die on the motor, was saved, is being kept hidden from the world and will appear just before the crowning of Prince Charles when he turns 84. Just heard there is a swoon story going around in the market places of Europe.

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Al-kafir

Guest Group

Joined: 21 October 2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 34

Posted: 19 March 2007 at 6:06pm

Originally posted by bmzsp

Al-kafir,

Amuse me before I say "We are not amused!" Tabloids are aplenty in London.

You realize of course that there will be those who are nodding, slack-jawed and eyes pinned to the ceiling in concurrence to your post. I think that's beyond likely.

There are similarly silly swoon stories circulating about, such as those proffered on this thread. I think we make a mistake by believing these sorts of conspiracy theories were ever or would ever be purely spontaneous. There is an unmistakable manipulative influence at work there.

Haven’t you heard that the Joooos were instructed not to go to work on 9-11?

I applaud your discriminating logic.

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BMZ

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Joined: 03 April 2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1852

Posted: 19 March 2007 at 8:33pm

"Haven’t you heard that the Joooos were instructed not to go to work on 9-11?"

No, Al-kafir.

Why were the Americans not instructed?

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Andalus

Moderator Group

Joined: 12 October 2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1187

Posted: 19 March 2007 at 8:34pm

Originally posted by Al-kafir

Originally posted by Andalus

Originally posted by Al-kafir

It seems that Moslems have an insatiable need to believe conspiracy theories.

It was not a Muslim whom stated the obvious about 9/11. As a Muslim, I do not believe in a conspiracy theory, which is what the government sold its residents and the world alike: A group of men living in caves in Afghanistan were able to train men under the noses of US intelligence and synchronise a major attack at the very moment NORAD was planned to stand down to run an exercise.

Here is more from a "non-Muslim".

What Did Israel Know in Advance of the 9/11 Attacks?

http://www.counterpunch.org/ketcham03072007.html

It’s really astonishing, the fantasy world that Moslems inhabit.

What I see as obvious in the lack of ability for the moslem posters to present any cogent argument is the pervasive pattern of ignoring what is evident and obvious. As usual, the conspiracy theories are running rampant. They may be valid to you, and within your own orbit that's fine. But by bringing them into the public arena, you have given approval for them to be scrutinized. That you think diabolical and sinister plots are unfolding at the hand of the US, Mossad, CIA, various other unnamed and unaccounted for conspirators, is entertaining but is also absent validation.

I will admit though, that after a 14 hour work day, I do get a bit of comic relief watching the saliva slinging tirades of conspiracy theorists.

Keep em’ comin.’

The only tirade I have seen on this thread are yours, which follow the usual tautological drivel of "brand", "label" and "insult", that way you do not have to actually say anything of value, you can simply pop in with your juvenile tidbits that do not invaildate anything be stated.

The article that initiated this thread was not a "tirade", not even in a loose interpretation of the word.

You can continue to pretend some kind of silly charade, but no one is fooled, and it is obvious you have no answer to any point that has been presented.

A feeling of discouragement when you slip up is a sure sign that you put your faith in deeds. -Ibn 'Ata'llah
http://www.sunnipath.com
http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/
http://www.pt-go.com/

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Andalus

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Joined: 12 October 2005
Location: United States
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Posts: 1187

Posted: 19 March 2007 at 8:38pm

Originally posted by Al-kafir

Originally posted by Duende

Al-kafir, don't worry, we also derive some amusement from your
inability to understand why millions of people all over the world (the
majority non-Muslim) refuse to believe the official story of 14 Arabs
quietly learning extraordinary flying skills.

And kindly put this sentence in ordinary English so we poor Moslems
might understand it better (translation: what does this mean?):
"What I see as obvious in the lack of ability for the moslem posters to
present any cogent argument is the pervasive pattern of ignoring
what is evident and obvious."

Speaking of proof and validation, why don't you see if you can come
up with the vital missing evidence: prove the hijakers were on board.

And by posting these theories here, bringing them into the public
arena (did you think they were not available all over the web?) as you
say, Andalus and others have done nothing extraordinary here. Do
you think these theories require some sort of official seal of approval
before being granted 'approval for scrutiny'?

You should know that your “…because I say so” argument is fine for the company [I[you keep but in the grown up world, truth supplants fiction. Except for your claiming so, I’m not aware that “(the majority non-Muslim)” refuse to believe (9-11) as you claim.

What is evident is that there is a pervasive pattern of Moslem denial and inability to accept facts that are inconsistent with the pronouncements issued by Islam’s politburo mouthpieces.

The alleged Jew connections with 9-11 are the most laughable examples of this.
Moslems’ obsession with IJH is as entertaining as it is pitiable. Moslems’ self created victimhood under the guise of those crafty Joooo conspiracies is part of Arab/Moslem cultural norms. What do these endless conspiratorial musings have in common? All of them tell us of millions of Moslem Middle Easterners who have immersed themselves in an imaginary world of conspiracies that is fueled by insecurity and self hate. Remember Baghdad Bob? (Saddam’s propaganda mouthpiece who was convinced that his fantasies were more real than the US armored forces plowing through Baghdad). The Baghdad Bob syndrome is more the norm than the exception in Arab/Moslem “culture”. Historians, both Western and Islamic, have oft noted that Moslem culture is more fantasy prone than modern, Western cultures. History has shown that Islam was passed by as the Renaissance, the European enlightenment, and finally the scientific-technological revolution, all predicated on free thought and open debate, allowed the West to surge ahead and forge new avenues of social, political and economic advances.

The fact that you have this need and desire to believe in conspiracy theories seems to be an emotional defense mechanism. You seem to be the prototypical angry, self hating Moslem. You revile the West, our modern and forward reaching culture, our stunning achievements and our successes. That’s why you live in the West and that’s why you harbor such deep resentment. Your ideology has been in decline for centuries because of it’s fundamental flaws which you cannot reconcile.

Candidly, I’m not going to assist you in furthering your fantasies. You have this need to believe in conspiracies. I’m happy for you. It matters not to me. You just really shouldn’t expect others to buy into your waking nightmare.

It's an exercise in futility dealing with self created victims. Gag a zealot. Shake a shiny object before his crazed eyes to get his attention. Calmly delineate in simple declarative sentences of user-friendly monosyllables a logical progression of facts, science and demonstration. Nod reassuringly. Slowly remove the gag. It is inevitable that the zealot will defiantly screech and sputter something as cogent as:

"DIRTY KUFFAR CRUSADERS AND ILLEGAL ZIONAZI OPPRESSORS….”

You will always be the perfect victim you choose to be.

Oh yeah. Why would anyone believe that hitting a building the size of the WTC requires anything as rigorous as “extraordinary flying skills”. How utterly silly. A rhetorical comment, that last sentence. As Moslems will have us believe it, It's all a Mossad/CIA/Freemason/Bush/Halliburton/Neocon/ (and all manner of other, as yet, un-named and unaccounted for co-conspirators).

You realize that you have stated absolutely nothing in the entire piece that you just put forth. You accuse Duende of "asserting", this is at least much more "realistic" then your silly and sophomoric "tirades" that repeat, and repeat, and repeat, but never actually state why anyone is wrong.

A feeling of discouragement when you slip up is a sure sign that you put your faith in deeds. -Ibn 'Ata'llah
http://www.sunnipath.com
http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/
http://www.pt-go.com/

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Conspiracy Theories
IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : Politics : Conspiracy Theories

Topic: CIA Analyst Concludes 9/11 inside job
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Author	Message
Duende Senior Member Joined: 27 July 2005 Location: Spain Online Status: Offline Posts: 651	Posted: 19 March 2007 at 7:52am
	Al-Kafir, please read the post. These are polls conducted by CNN and New York Times/CBS News polls. I knew (since you are so predictable) that the source would draw negative commentary from you, and I included it only to elicit such a response. It is amusing, you see. It's not my fault Prisonplanet turned up as the most succinct source, once again: don't blame the messenger, read the message. It is obvious you are firmly committed to the official story/ propaganda, I am firmly committed to knowing the truth which unfortunately shall never come from the official sources. I will gladly take your encouragement, offered in such a paternalistic/ sarcastic tone, coming as it does from one so far ahead of me intellectually and morally. I also encourage you to continue living your life with your head stuck in the sand, gladly swallowing the propaganda fed to you, just refrain from forcing your own limited viewpoint on the rest of us. Fox/ Murdoch/Washington Post et al are already doing that: bombarding us with the same precision as the US military.
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Servetus Male Christian Senior Member Joined: 04 April 2001 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 2097	Posted: 19 March 2007 at 9:44am
	*Originally posted by Above, Al-kafir* ... It's an exercise in futility dealing with self created victims. Gag a zealot. Shake a shiny object before his crazed eyes to get his attention. Calmly delineate in simple declarative sentences of user-friendly monosyllables a logical progression of facts, science and demonstration. Nod reassuringly. Slowly remove the gag. It is inevitable that the zealot will defiantly screech and sputter something as cogent as ... Ok, call it the makings of a thinly and thus badly disguised conspiracy and call in the Ministry of Truth and the Warren Commission to clear things up, but I suspect that, contrary to so-called official reports which might say otherwise, Al-Kafir and RuggedTouch are, if not repeating the same instructions from Pavlov, then at least sharing the same I-Pod. *Originally posted by RuggedTouch* … It's an exercise in futility, I’m afraid. Gag a zealot. Shake a shiny object before his crazed eyes to get his attention. Calmly delineate in simple declarative sentences of user-friendly monosyllables a logical progression of folly from wacky conspiracy theories to their self inflicted gaffs and blunders. Nod reassuringly. Slowly remove the gag. It is inevitable that one of the zealots you mentioned will defiantly screech and sputter something as cogent as … (source: http://www.islamicity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=7360& ;KW=declarative) This, in one of those at first seemingly unrelated events which often links broader conspiracies, or at least seems to, is what happened to a troll once up in Norway, or some such place: “Who’s that tramping over my bridge?” roared the troll. “It’s I! The big Billy Goat Gruff,” said the billy goat, who had an ugly hoarse voice of his own. “Now I’m coming to gobble you up,” roared the troll. Well, come along! I’ve got two spears, And I’ll poke your eyeballs out at your ears; I’ve got besides two curling-stones, and I’ll crush you to bits, body and bones.” Serv Ref: http://www.pitt.edu/~dash/type0122e.html
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Al-kafir Guest Group Joined: 21 October 2006 Online Status: Offline Posts: 34	Posted: 19 March 2007 at 3:33pm
	*Originally posted by Duende* Al-Kafir, please read the post. These are polls conducted by CNN and New York Times/CBS News polls. I knew (since you are so predictable) that the source would draw negative commentary from you, and I included it only to elicit such a response. It is amusing, you see. It's not my fault Prisonplanet turned up as the most succinct source, once again: don't blame the messenger, read the message. It is obvious you are firmly committed to the official story/ propaganda, I am firmly committed to knowing the truth which unfortunately shall never come from the official sources. I will gladly take your encouragement, offered in such a paternalistic/ sarcastic tone, coming as it does from one so far ahead of me intellectually and morally. I also encourage you to continue living your life with your head stuck in the sand, gladly swallowing the propaganda fed to you, just refrain from forcing your own limited viewpoint on the rest of us. Fox/ Murdoch/Washington Post et al are already doing that: bombarding us with the same precision as the US military. Because you somehow missed it the first time I’ll reiterate that copying and pasting the results of polls doesn’t pass for facts. You’re enthralled with conspiracy theories because they reinforce your learned hatreds and biases. It’s as though you embrace the inverse of reason and rationality. You operate backwards starting from a desperately desired answer then proceeding to the imaginary and invented evidence needed to prove it. In the fixed cast of the rabid conspiracy theorist the weight of endlessly repeated fantasy and conjecture is simply smothering. There are the tabloid websites that are akin to the supermarket tabloid news rags which cater to the gullible and the easily persuaded. They drum the same story into millions of minds. The method used is always to tell one, single narrative, typically by way of answering questions with questions or just posing open ended questions and to smother any competing ideas. That is how the “less than discerning” are able to convince themselves that Joooos control the world, that fantasy is reality and that personal ineptitude and failure is answered by detonating car bombs in crowded markets. Its standard cult indoctrination scaled up to millions of susceptible minds. Edited by Al-kafir
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BMZ Moderator Group Joined: 03 April 2006 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1852	Posted: 19 March 2007 at 5:33pm
	Al-kafir, Amuse me before I say "We are not amused!" Tabloids are aplenty in London. I am interested in knowing how Dianna did not die on the motor, was saved, is being kept hidden from the world and will appear just before the crowning of Prince Charles when he turns 84. Just heard there is a swoon story going around in the market places of Europe.
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Al-kafir Guest Group Joined: 21 October 2006 Online Status: Offline Posts: 34	Posted: 19 March 2007 at 6:06pm
	*Originally posted by bmzsp* Al-kafir, Amuse me before I say "We are not amused!" Tabloids are aplenty in London. I am interested in knowing how Dianna did not die on the motor, was saved, is being kept hidden from the world and will appear just before the crowning of Prince Charles when he turns 84. Just heard there is a swoon story going around in the market places of Europe. You realize of course that there will be those who are nodding, slack-jawed and eyes pinned to the ceiling in concurrence to your post. I think that's beyond likely. There are similarly silly swoon stories circulating about, such as those proffered on this thread. I think we make a mistake by believing these sorts of conspiracy theories were ever or would ever be purely spontaneous. There is an unmistakable manipulative influence at work there. Haven’t you heard that the Joooos were instructed not to go to work on 9-11? I applaud your discriminating logic.
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BMZ Moderator Group Joined: 03 April 2006 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1852	Posted: 19 March 2007 at 8:33pm
	"Haven’t you heard that the Joooos were instructed not to go to work on 9-11?" No, Al-kafir. Why were the Americans not instructed?
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Andalus Moderator Group Joined: 12 October 2005 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 1187	Posted: 19 March 2007 at 8:34pm
	*Originally posted by Al-kafir* *Originally posted by Andalus* *Originally posted by Al-kafir* It seems that Moslems have an insatiable need to believe conspiracy theories. It was not a Muslim whom stated the obvious about 9/11. As a Muslim, I do not believe in a conspiracy theory, which is what the government sold its residents and the world alike: A group of men living in caves in Afghanistan were able to train men under the noses of US intelligence and synchronise a major attack at the very moment NORAD was planned to stand down to run an exercise. Here is more from a "non-Muslim". What Did Israel Know in Advance of the 9/11 Attacks? http://www.counterpunch.org/ketcham03072007.html It’s really astonishing, the fantasy world that Moslems inhabit. What I see as obvious in the lack of ability for the moslem posters to present any cogent argument is the pervasive pattern of ignoring what is evident and obvious. As usual, the conspiracy theories are running rampant. They may be valid to you, and within your own orbit that's fine. But by bringing them into the public arena, you have given approval for them to be scrutinized. That you think diabolical and sinister plots are unfolding at the hand of the US, Mossad, CIA, various other unnamed and unaccounted for conspirators, is entertaining but is also absent validation. I will admit though, that after a 14 hour work day, I do get a bit of comic relief watching the saliva slinging tirades of conspiracy theorists. Keep em’ comin.’ The only tirade I have seen on this thread are yours, which follow the usual tautological drivel of "brand", "label" and "insult", that way you do not have to actually say anything of value, you can simply pop in with your juvenile tidbits that do not invaildate anything be stated. The article that initiated this thread was not a "tirade", not even in a loose interpretation of the word. You can continue to pretend some kind of silly charade, but no one is fooled, and it is obvious you have no answer to any point that has been presented.
	A feeling of discouragement when you slip up is a sure sign that you put your faith in deeds. -Ibn 'Ata'llah http://www.sunnipath.com http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/ http://www.pt-go.com/
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Andalus Moderator Group Joined: 12 October 2005 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 1187	Posted: 19 March 2007 at 8:38pm
	*Originally posted by Al-kafir* *Originally posted by Duende* Al-kafir, don't worry, we also derive some amusement from your inability to understand why millions of people all over the world (the majority non-Muslim) refuse to believe the official story of 14 Arabs quietly learning extraordinary flying skills. And kindly put this sentence in ordinary English so we poor Moslems might understand it better (translation: what does this mean?): "What I see as obvious in the lack of ability for the moslem posters to present any cogent argument is the pervasive pattern of ignoring what is evident and obvious." Speaking of proof and validation, why don't you see if you can come up with the vital missing evidence: prove the hijakers were on board. And by posting these theories here, bringing them into the public arena (did you think they were not available all over the web?) as you say, Andalus and others have done nothing extraordinary here. Do you think these theories require some sort of official seal of approval before being granted 'approval for scrutiny'? You should know that your “…because I say so” argument is fine for the company [I[you keep but in the grown up world, truth supplants fiction. Except for your claiming so, I’m not aware that “(the majority non-Muslim)” refuse to believe (9-11) as you claim. What is evident is that there is a pervasive pattern of Moslem denial and inability to accept facts that are inconsistent with the pronouncements issued by Islam’s politburo mouthpieces. The alleged Jew connections with 9-11 are the most laughable examples of this. Moslems’ obsession with IJH is as entertaining as it is pitiable. Moslems’ self created victimhood under the guise of those crafty Joooo conspiracies is part of Arab/Moslem cultural norms. What do these endless conspiratorial musings have in common? All of them tell us of millions of Moslem Middle Easterners who have immersed themselves in an imaginary world of conspiracies that is fueled by insecurity and self hate. Remember Baghdad Bob? (Saddam’s propaganda mouthpiece who was convinced that his fantasies were more real than the US armored forces plowing through Baghdad). The Baghdad Bob syndrome is more the norm than the exception in Arab/Moslem “culture”. Historians, both Western and Islamic, have oft noted that Moslem culture is more fantasy prone than modern, Western cultures. History has shown that Islam was passed by as the Renaissance, the European enlightenment, and finally the scientific-technological revolution, all predicated on free thought and open debate, allowed the West to surge ahead and forge new avenues of social, political and economic advances. The fact that you have this need and desire to believe in conspiracy theories seems to be an emotional defense mechanism. You seem to be the prototypical angry, self hating Moslem. You revile the West, our modern and forward reaching culture, our stunning achievements and our successes. That’s why you live in the West and that’s why you harbor such deep resentment. Your ideology has been in decline for centuries because of it’s fundamental flaws which you cannot reconcile. Candidly, I’m not going to assist you in furthering your fantasies. You have this need to believe in conspiracies. I’m happy for you. It matters not to me. You just really shouldn’t expect others to buy into your waking nightmare. It's an exercise in futility dealing with self created victims. Gag a zealot. Shake a shiny object before his crazed eyes to get his attention. Calmly delineate in simple declarative sentences of user-friendly monosyllables a logical progression of facts, science and demonstration. Nod reassuringly. Slowly remove the gag. It is inevitable that the zealot will defiantly screech and sputter something as cogent as: "DIRTY KUFFAR CRUSADERS AND ILLEGAL ZIONAZI OPPRESSORS….” You will always be the perfect victim you choose to be. Oh yeah. Why would anyone believe that hitting a building the size of the WTC requires anything as rigorous as “extraordinary flying skills”. How utterly silly. A rhetorical comment, that last sentence. As Moslems will have us believe it, It's all a Mossad/CIA/Freemason/Bush/Halliburton/Neocon/ (and all manner of other, as yet, un-named and unaccounted for co-conspirators). You realize that you have stated absolutely nothing in the entire piece that you just put forth. You accuse Duende of "asserting", this is at least much more "realistic" then your silly and sophomoric "tirades" that repeat, and repeat, and repeat, but never actually state why anyone is wrong.
	A feeling of discouragement when you slip up is a sure sign that you put your faith in deeds. -Ibn 'Ata'llah http://www.sunnipath.com http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/ http://www.pt-go.com/
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