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Message Icon Topic: What if America Left? Post Reply Post New Topic
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Hanan
 
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Quote Hanan Replybullet Posted: 05 September 2006 at 10:47am

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mariyah
 
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Quote mariyah Replybullet Posted: 05 September 2006 at 12:54pm

To the people who support occupation:

Aren't you GLAD the British and the FRENCH pulled out after the Revolutionary war?

Don't you just HATE it when someone tries to shove their unwanted opinions DOWN YOUR THROAT?

Think about it......

"Every good deed is charity whether you come to your brother's assistance or just greet him with a smile.
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Quote ops154 Replybullet Posted: 05 September 2006 at 6:43pm

Ok so both of you side stepped the question. Why should America leave when we left Afghanistan in a mess and it came back to bite us? Hanan anything to add other than your own assumptions about me? Why is it that I have to be a Bush supporter just because I asked that question? Why is it that you can't ever answer a question with a simple answer that doesn't go into "you love bush" arguments?

Get it through your heads that I don't support Bush or the Israeli's! Thank your lucky stars for America is here to stay!!!
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ops154
 
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Quote ops154 Replybullet Posted: 05 September 2006 at 6:44pm
Originally posted by Maryah

To the people who support occupation:

Aren't you GLAD the British and the FRENCH pulled out after the Revolutionary war?

Don't you just HATE it when someone tries to shove their unwanted opinions DOWN YOUR THROAT?

Think about it......

 

In case you didn't know the British lost the war and that is why they pulled out. Otherwise I think the war would of kept on going.

Get it through your heads that I don't support Bush or the Israeli's! Thank your lucky stars for America is here to stay!!!
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Israfil
 
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Quote Israfil Replybullet Posted: 05 September 2006 at 6:52pm
MOCKBA you said that i would be fair for Americans to not contemplate
on such a question on the "What if's" sorry to tell you brother but this is
reality and judging from the many anti-war protestors home and abroad
as well as this forum the thought beckons. I agree that America has no
business with the affairs of oither countries and although I don't like
playing super hero to a lost cause I think the case with the United States
intervening was "cause and effect."

I believe that this cause and effect didn't exist in 2001 but many decades
prior to this event. With all this said I still think even out of misguided
and perhaps this mistake of intervention did SOME good. Although we
may not see it in the media or ever see it I believe that there are some
sectors of these countries where people are flourishing whereas before
they wouldn't have. Honestly me being ok with a corrupt Muslim
government wouldn't sit well with me. Even if the United States intervened
which poison would you choose? I tend to think the fact that America is
seen as more of a Judeo/Christian nation as well as a supporter of Israel
is more of a disturbing image more than anything IMO.
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MOCKBA
 
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Quote MOCKBA Replybullet Posted: 06 September 2006 at 1:26am

Bismillah

Brother Israfil, thanks for picking me from among sitting on the respondents' bench. Personally, I try not to think of the lesser evils. Why do we need to choose between two poisons? In my limited international exposure and brief business experience, I managed to observe how things are run and who benefits most. Unlike early days, there are less theories and conspiracies in my head. There is more of perception of reality and personal experience… Some of the very conspiracy theories I used to mock at eventually came out to be true leaving others laughing last but me…

Frankly, whether America leaves Iraq or doesn’t leave Iraq does not make much difference to me… The British left Malaya because it could by then dance to the tune of the British system on its own and without assistance of the master. The same is with Gulf…

Let's be very straight, the main cause of the trouble is oil and control over vital natural resources… Democracy, freedom, education, love, peace, sandy beaches and rock'n'roll is utter puff. Unfortunately, many sincere and patriotic people believe that America has an obligation to save the world, often due to their own naivete or treacherous betrayal craft of their leaders. And ‘leaders’, in most of today’s world, have become synonymous with ‘corrupt’… only that some wear suit and tie, others military uniform and yet others tribal robes.

The “What iffs” will last forever… consider this:

Imagine China carried out a series of pre-emptive attacks on the USA (for making strong offensive remarks and a couple of “staged” terrorist attacks and murders of its nationals within and outside of the United States) and dislocated her troops in order to save US people as well as their own from coming horror of capitalism, imperialism and bloodsucking corporate evil giants. Imagine it would cripple US infrastructure, contaminate water resources, murder hundreds of thousands of people and throw the country a couple of decades if not a century behind. Later, Chinese media with fabricated concern, would portray Americans as uncontrollable hungry thirsty crowd lost in the ruins and not knowing what to do and where to go next, killing each other for a handful of potato chips, living in caves and burrows in fear of further attacks. To ease their state, the government of China would then appoint a pro-Communist Chinese-American (educated and groomed in Socialist Studies at Peking University) and his like as the temporary government of the United Socialist America, the new USA. As a token of goodwill, the Government of China would send their construction and engineering companies, a million of acupuncture specialists, a million of communist theory teachers, few millions of military consultants, full container loads of Chinese traditional medicinal herbs, tons of rice, Mao-styled shirts and caps, flags, badges, uniforms, chop sticks, instant noodles, road signs in Chinese... to rebuild the nation and bring up the new generation of liberated loan-free Americans... Any minor resistance to the new governing system would be a mere "birth pangs of the new America".

Sounds insane, doesn't it? But based on a true story... if you do not refuse to see it. 

If a strong majority were to make an attempt to topple the House of Saud, to end tyranny and dissolute monarchy, and replace it with organized Islamic system of governance, America would not likely encourage such liberation rather send troops to eradicate the uprising and shield the king. Why? If it is due to the higher risk of having another 9/11 then it should just kill everyone in fear that they may one day attack, rob, or even create unwanted competition...

The fact that America does not want to leave Iraq because it fears that it may become worse is yet another symptom of a major national paranoia... and those suffering from such condition are strongly recommended by doctors not to drive a car... not to mention of leading the world to salvation...

MOCKBA
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Israfil
 
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Quote Israfil Replybullet Posted: 06 September 2006 at 8:39am

MOCKBA your scenario is moving and convincing and perhaps is possible, but as you say ultimately the purpose of America is to get oil and its resources right? I just like to think that "What if right now" what if America left? What would happen to the countries? Many say that it doesn't matter and some use past histories for catch 22's, but I am merely contemplating the thought. America is not the savior of anyone and frankly if it were up to me I'd let those countries destroy themselves as they were doing anyway. I'd focus on domestic terrorism here in America. But I'm biased though. The countries I think need the most help is India (because of its AIDS epidemic and the issue with women) and of course Africa. But as many of you say (as well as me) there is no benefit to either country for America that is why we are not there.

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Angela
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Quote Angela Replybullet Posted: 06 September 2006 at 9:32am

On can look at a total pullout in Iraq on two fronts...

The key is really what do the Iraqi people want.  Its easy for those of us sitting here with our computers in the US (yes, even Hanan is in the US), Russia, Austrailia and Singapore to try to determine what the Iraqis want....but its really up to them.

I think there needs to be an unconditional pullout of Iraq with the continuence of Humanitarian Aid through the Red Cross/Crescent and the United Nations.

The current Iraqi government is artifically being upheld only by our troops.

When we pull out it will be chaos and anarchy.....the two sides will engage in a bloody civil war and the strongest will prevail.  Thousands more will die and more tears will be shed. 

But I honestly believe these people will die no matter whether we stay or go....as we stay, we offer the insurgents (or freedom fighters depending on who's taking) an excuse to blow up market places and mosques.  If we leave, they will no longer have the Americans as an excuse and the Iraqi people will be free to combat this without looking like they are supporting the Americans. 

Saddam used fear and genocide to keep these people in an artificial peace.  In the LONG run, it will be best to let them fight it out themselves.  Its their fight, not ours.  They need to forge their destiny.

It will come back to haunt us Ops, nothing can stop that now.  We built up the Taliban, we built bases in their Holyland, we have a history of playing with the world's governments.  Bush has not made one real success in his war on Terrorism.  If anything, he's caused more sympathy towards the terrorists, more youth to be vulnerable to the ravings of madmen and more people willing to justify their actions as defensive.

The US will see more 9/11s.  We have only to wait and nothing that has been done diverted that or will divert that.  You cannot fight a war against a tactic.  You cannot fight a war with something that is intangible. 

We did not "win" the Cold War.  The Communist governments eventually lose the war for themselves.  The ideal doesn't work and eventually its cast aside by the people.  If left alone, this strain of men seeking to twist a faith for their own desires will be cast aside by the others.  However, declaring war on the whole only prolongs this process.  We will not win.  Only time will defeat these groups.

What we need to do is step back and give the people caught in the middle time to breath and think for themselves.  Right now they can't do that because the two sides are trying to shout over each other and tell them what to think.

Bush has created more terrorists and radicals than were there before he started....the man is completely out of touch with reality.  I cannot wait for the 2008 elections. 

 

 

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