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 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : General : Science & Technology
Message Icon Topic: Concept of Creation VS Chance Post Reply Post New Topic
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Alwardah
 
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Quote Alwardah Replybullet Posted: 28 April 2005 at 10:36am
Originally posted by deist

Originally posted by Alwardah

Originally posted by deist



You already make a logical mistake when you simply assume that a force must be behind all that exists !
There is no conclusive proof for that either.

Peace
Deist

You and I and the rest of the universe is proof  do you really need more.


Actually that is no proof at all.
It only states that something exists.

Okay this is simple for me,

Me and the rest of my world were created.

You and the rest of your world are here by chance.

So I believe in Allah (God), punishment and reward

To you there is no God, no punishment nor reward.

How sad nothing for you to really look forward to - just existing.

Alhamdulillah, Insha Allah I am working towards Paradise

Take care nice discussion.

 



Edited by Alwardah
“Verily your Lord is quick in punishment; yet He is indeed Oft-Forgiving Most Merciful (Surah Al-An’am 6:165)
"Indeed, we belong to Allah and to Him is our return" (Surah Baqarah 2: 155)
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Angel
 
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Quote Angel Replybullet Posted: 29 April 2005 at 7:31am
Originally posted by Alwardah

To you there is no God, no punishment nor reward.

You make a mistake here about Deist!

Why do you say he does not believe in God?

~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~
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Angel
 
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Quote Angel Replybullet Posted: 29 April 2005 at 8:08am
Originally posted by Alwardah

If we believe in chance then no purpose in worshiping Allah, because there is no God, no accountability, no punishment, no reward, no paradise and no hell, there is no purpose in life.

 

Hence what's the purpose in living right?

Of course there is purpose in life 

Why do you think that there is no purpose in life if there is no purpose in worshipping God?

You correct that if no God, then no need to worship God

 

You still have accountability to yourself and others and your evironment.

You still have punishment, its just not from God. So you have man made rules where if you break them then you be punished. The same with the environment if you mess with it, you suffer.

You still have reward - your life and the senses of the world around you, those things that make you the most happiest. Take care of the environment and you are well and have food and water and materials to make things for living. 

You still have paradise - the wonderful and remarkable world you live in, being happy and joyess and peace.

You still have a hell, those things that you may consider your darkest hours of your life.

 

So if chance is the go, you still have purpose in life, just think a little  

Darwin's theory of evolution is regarded as the greatest support for atheism.

 

By whom, the atheist ?

 

It was religion that showed man the way to know Allah

 

Or it perhaps it was nature itself and the element of the world and not religion  

Are we here by chance – NO Chance.

 

Maybe, take away all the scriptures, do you actually know then ?

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Alwardah
 
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Quote Alwardah Replybullet Posted: 30 April 2005 at 4:39am
Originally posted by Angel

Originally posted by Alwardah

To you there is no God, no punishment nor reward.

You make a mistake here about Deist!

Why do you say he does not believe in God?

Sori Deist my apologies, from ur argument I assumed u don't believe in God, and everything is here by chance. Assumption is a bad thing. I thought in the forums, we are setting forward our opinions and views based on our beliefs.  

 

Sori will be more careful in future



Edited by Alwardah
“Verily your Lord is quick in punishment; yet He is indeed Oft-Forgiving Most Merciful (Surah Al-An’am 6:165)
"Indeed, we belong to Allah and to Him is our return" (Surah Baqarah 2: 155)
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Alwardah
 
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Quote Alwardah Replybullet Posted: 30 April 2005 at 4:55am

Good points, Angel, Wow never really thought about it like that.

Originally posted by Angel

You still have accountability to yourself and others and your evironment.

You still have punishment, its just not from God. So you have man made rules where if you break them then you be punished.

Yes how true but man made rules punish the innocent and reward the guilty thats justice.

 

Originally posted by Angel

 

The same with the environment if you mess with it, you suffer.

You still have reward - your life and the senses of the world around you, those things that make you the most happiest. Take care of the environment and you are well and have food and water and materials to make things for living. 

You still have paradise - the wonderful and remarkable world you live in, being happy and joyess and peace.

 

100 per cent I agree with you

Originally posted by Angel

You still have a hell, those things that you may consider your darkest hours of your life.

 

So if chance is the go, you still have purpose in life, just think a little  

 

Maybe, take away all the scriptures, do you actually know then ?

 Take away the scriptures what do you have  nothing not even chance.

 

“Verily your Lord is quick in punishment; yet He is indeed Oft-Forgiving Most Merciful (Surah Al-An’am 6:165)
"Indeed, we belong to Allah and to Him is our return" (Surah Baqarah 2: 155)
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deist
 
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Quote deist Replybullet Posted: 02 May 2005 at 12:08am
Originally posted by Alwardah

Okay this is simple for me,

Me and the rest of my world were created.

You and the rest of your world are here by chance.

So I believe in Allah (God), punishment and reward

To you there is no God, no punishment nor reward.

How sad nothing for you to really look forward to - just existing.

Alhamdulillah, Insha Allah I am working towards Paradise

Take care nice discussion.


First of all i didnt at all state what i believe in.

Secondly as i stated already somewhere here .. evolution is not about "chance".

Anyway...

Actually nothing in your above text contains any true argument or proof, it just contains the wish and hope that after this life something will happen and you continue to "live" somehow. You also seem to think that people that are atheists have nothing they work for. Its a classical claim often also used next to the idea that atheists per se have no morals.
In any case it is however totally unrelated to the real question.

If you reread your lines above then you will see that you seem to  base your belief on what you WANT and not so much on what you can PROOVE.
You believe because this belief gives you some perspective. You do not seem to be able to cope with a possible truth that renders your existence "unimportant". Or lets say you seem to think that live without a god is without sense and you seem to have a problem with
that.

My attitude here is different.
I follow a simple rule which says that "a true seeker of truth will follow the truth no matter how it looks like and whether he likes it or not".

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nadir
 
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Quote nadir Replybullet Posted: 02 May 2005 at 11:13am

Assalaamu Alaikum

 

 

Sister Alwardah

 

 

I enjoyed your piece:

 

Okay this is simple for me,

Me and the rest of my world were created.

You and the rest of your world are here by chance.

So I believe in Allah (God), punishment and reward

To you there is no God, no punishment nor reward.

How sad nothing for you to really look forward to - just existing.

Alhamdulillah, Insha Allah I am working towards Paradise

Take care nice discussion.

 

Indeed you helped me to take morally just decisions over the last few days, as I remembered your words when I was in a situation, where in the past I may have slipped up. Hence please accept my personal gratitude for writing the above (as I think it meant more to me than Deist).

 

 

Deist, please do not pick on Alwardah, when you have not even met my challenge (“I am not hiding, so please if you can find me a challenger on this issue, I am ready & waiting”). If you think I know nothing of the science I have mentioned, it should be doubly easy for you to, make a fool of me. And if you refuse this challenge, then you are accepting that what I am professing (that I am able to scientifically unify the energy forces with gravity [general relativity]), is the truth!

 

Please, please accept my challenge; let me show who really knows!!!

 

nadir

 

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Alwardah
 
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Quote Alwardah Replybullet Posted: 02 May 2005 at 12:42pm

Originally posted by deist

First of all i didnt at all state what i believe in.

Sori very naïve about the rules played on discussion boards,  I thought people discussed what they believed in. Insha Allah learning fast.

Originally posted by deist

Secondly as i stated already somewhere here .. evolution is not about "chance"..

So what's the discussion we are here by chance or evolved

Originally posted by deist

In any case it is however totally unrelated to the real question.

Which is- we are here by chance

Originally posted by deist

If you reread your lines above then you will see that you seem to  base your belief on what you WANT and not so much on what you can PROOVE.
You believe because this belief gives you some perspective. You do not seem to be able to cope with a possible truth that renders your existence "unimportant". Or lets say you seem to think that live without a god is without sense and you seem to have a problem with
that.

Actually u are correct, it doesn't contain proof because it is what I believe in, I believe I was created by the Supreme Creator, and yes I based my belief on what I want and believe to be the truth. And because I believe in creation I don't need proof.

 

Why should I worry about the possible truth about my existence being "unimportant" when I know that all creations are important, not only me.

 

Not true, i don't have any such problem, everyone sometimes or the other calls out to "god" ever heard the expression "O God" even atheist use this expression quite often.

 

Originally posted by deist

My attitude here is different.
I follow a simple rule which says that "a true seeker of truth will follow the truth no matter how it looks like and whether he likes it or not".

True, true, I found my truth, I pray you find yours as well.

“Verily your Lord is quick in punishment; yet He is indeed Oft-Forgiving Most Merciful (Surah Al-An’am 6:165)
"Indeed, we belong to Allah and to Him is our return" (Surah Baqarah 2: 155)
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