Kim

Message

Originally posted by nadir

Assalaamu alaikum

How can I explain something more complex than the forces of; electro magnetism, nuclear, atom glue, & gravity (general relativity), to people who know nothing of these forces?

How can I explain something more complex than the forces of; electro magnetism, nuclear, atom glue, & gravity (general relativity), to people who run & hide from me, because they are selfish, greedy, & manipulative, and wish to remain so?

How can I explain something more complex than the forces of; electro magnetism, nuclear, atom glue, & gravity (general relativity), to people who think they already (scientifically) know these forces, but do not (they only know the erroneous ways of the people they follow), as if they did, they would know they are One Force - Allah (SWT)?

Yes, that can be a bit of a problem.
I wonder how Einstein, Newton, Darwin, Gelillio and others overcame this problem of how to explain certain sciences ?
So if you have all your information there with you then the real problem is getting people to listen to you, and you getting angry everytime is not going to help you either.

If you really have (and I'm not saying that you don't) your information, diagrams and explanations of your proof, but cannot present it here on the internet therefore also the forum here (for whatever reason),  then present it in a way that you can, in the language that is best for you, put it in a journal or book and don't get side track whether people if they understand you or not or willing to listen to you or not, the main thing is that you have your information presented in some form.
(Anyway I have no idea what you have done so far so perhaps you have done this already)

And of another thing if someone doesn't understand you then its not that person's fault and you shouldn't get angry at them, yes it can be frustrating but do you have to attack them back ? And also if someone does understand you but disagrees with you then you shouldn't really get angry at them either. 

Angel said: “What doubt?” 
Does Allah (SWT) exist or not? Bring me proof, if you have no doubt!

Do you really want me to answer that 
Why should I bring my proof if you don't bring yours  YOU are the one claiming that there is evidence of God's existence, not I. And I am not even disprooving you either.  

Okay, lets say that I do have proof of God's existence, what then? and perhaps its not the same as your evidence, then what? you will still probably mention that I am wrong and not proof because my evidence is not the same as yours. 
Ok what if I do have proof that God doesn't exist? then what ? what are you going to do? 

This statement (& most of the others) were directed toward the Saudi’s, Iranian’s, Chinese, & Russians (also the masons), who continue to ignore me. They have made my life a misery through their selfish greed, & haughty imperialist attitudes. I want them to come and kill me, because they can’t come & prove me wrong, and hence they have left me in limbo.

Through their denial of me, they illustrate their real motivation (ie they do not care for anyone except their selves).

So here I am, disrespected (& treated like an ignoramus) by people with secular values (& scientists alike), for challenging their false (scientific) perceptions…..

So here I am, disrespected (& treated like an ignoramus) by Muslim’s, who deem that I cannot possibly know anything unless I know Arabic (as well as other matters)…..

I think you need to make a distinction between the people you talk about and the people here at the boards. As I said earlier, your post was clearly stated towards me only!

Do you know something, it is not the job of scientists to disproove or approve of God's existence! There are scientists who believe in God's existence and there are also scientists who do not believe in the existence of God.

You believe in God's existence and you have evidence for it, can you not just be happy with that ? 
If you are so intent on others in knowing, then publish a book  and any money you make can go back into your research or charity :-)
Why do you need to go through scientists and embassies themselves ? and put yourself through this misery that you have.

Please tell me where I am expected to find the motivation to like (or even talk to) any of these groups, when they treat me like this???????

Are you not asking too much of others ?
Do you think you are the only person who is rejected after rejection after rejection and lose motivation ? 
I wonder how others who are rejected after rejection and after rejection, how they cope and keep motivated to keep going before they get that one person who won't reject them ?

I would like an answer from the chief of Islamicity!

And what is the chief of IC going to do ?
What do you expect from the chief?
I believe that the chief is in the same boat as the rest of us here at IC, that we cannot really challenge you without your evidence of your claim ? 

There is nothing more to say really on the matter. 

Edited by Angel

Author	Message
Angel Senior Member Joined: 03 July 2001 Online Status: Offline Posts: 6626	Posted: 12 May 2005 at 7:59am
	*Originally posted by nadir* Assalaamu alaikum How can I explain something more complex than the forces of; electro magnetism, nuclear, atom glue, & gravity (general relativity), to people who know nothing of these forces? How can I explain something more complex than the forces of; electro magnetism, nuclear, atom glue, & gravity (general relativity), to people who run & hide from me, because they are selfish, greedy, & manipulative, and wish to remain so? How can I explain something more complex than the forces of; electro magnetism, nuclear, atom glue, & gravity (general relativity), to people who think they already (scientifically) know these forces, but do not (they only know the erroneous ways of the people they follow), as if they did, they would know they are One Force - Allah (SWT)? Yes, that can be a bit of a problem. I wonder how Einstein, Newton, Darwin, Gelillio and others overcame this problem of how to explain certain sciences ? So if you have all your information there with you then the real problem is getting people to listen to you, and you getting angry everytime is not going to help you either. If you really have (and I'm not saying that you don't) your information, diagrams and explanations of your proof, but cannot present it here on the internet therefore also the forum here (for whatever reason), then present it in a way that you can, in the language that is best for you, put it in a journal or book and don't get side track whether people if they understand you or not or willing to listen to you or not, the main thing is that you have your information presented in some form. (Anyway I have no idea what you have done so far so perhaps you have done this already) And of another thing if someone doesn't understand you then its not that person's fault and you shouldn't get angry at them, yes it can be frustrating but do you have to attack them back ? And also if someone does understand you but disagrees with you then you shouldn't really get angry at them either. Angel said: “What doubt?” Does Allah (SWT) exist or not? Bring me proof, if you have no doubt! Do you really want me to answer that Why should I bring my proof if you don't bring yours YOU are the one claiming that there is evidence of God's existence, not I. And I am not even disprooving you either. Okay, lets say that I do have proof of God's existence, what then? and perhaps its not the same as your evidence, then what? you will still probably mention that I am wrong and not proof because my evidence is not the same as yours. Ok what if I do have proof that God doesn't exist? then what ? what are you going to do? This statement (& most of the others) were directed toward the Saudi’s, Iranian’s, Chinese, & Russians (also the masons), who continue to ignore me. They have made my life a misery through their selfish greed, & haughty imperialist attitudes. I want them to come and kill me, because they can’t come & prove me wrong, and hence they have left me in limbo. Through their denial of me, they illustrate their real motivation (ie they do not care for anyone except their selves). So here I am, disrespected (& treated like an ignoramus) by people with secular values (& scientists alike), for challenging their false (scientific) perceptions….. So here I am, disrespected (& treated like an ignoramus) by Muslim’s, who deem that I cannot possibly know anything unless I know Arabic (as well as other matters)….. I think you need to make a distinction between the people you talk about and the people here at the boards. As I said earlier, your post was clearly stated towards me only! Do you know something, it is not the job of scientists to disproove or approve of God's existence! There are scientists who believe in God's existence and there are also scientists who do not believe in the existence of God. You believe in God's existence and you have evidence for it, can you not just be happy with that ? If you are so intent on others in knowing, then publish a book and any money you make can go back into your research or charity :-) Why do you need to go through scientists and embassies themselves ? and put yourself through this misery that you have. Please tell me where I am expected to find the motivation to like (or even talk to) any of these groups, when they treat me like this??????? Are you not asking too much of others ? Do you think you are the only person who is rejected after rejection after rejection and lose motivation ? I wonder how others who are rejected after rejection and after rejection, how they cope and keep motivated to keep going before they get that one person who won't reject them ? I would like an answer from the chief of Islamicity! And what is the chief of IC going to do ? What do you expect from the chief? I believe that the chief is in the same boat as the rest of us here at IC, that we cannot really challenge you without your evidence of your claim ? There is nothing more to say really on the matter. Edited by Angel
	[IMG]http://www.mysmilie.de/smilies/engel/img/003.gif" />~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~
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firewall Senior Member Joined: 06 November 2004 Location: Malaysia Online Status: Offline Posts: 215	Posted: 12 May 2005 at 11:22pm
	Edited by firewall
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nadir Senior Member Joined: 22 March 2005 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 120	Posted: 15 May 2005 at 9:01am
	Assalaamu alaikum Kim Just before I proceed, may you please take heed….. You ask for the very meaning of life, remember this is brief and will not fully suffice!!! I do though wish to honestly assist, hence please feel free to persist Allah’s predestination dictates, the ink is already dry! Please do not be confused, & think that this means you having nothing to lose. It is more a case of choice, However do you know how to choose? Allah (SWT) may give you a choice, But think, on what premise do you choose? In ignorance you still choose, But unfortunately you may slip & still lose. With wisdom you can really choose, The straight path on which you won’t lose! Sure, some are never shown the straight path, Hence other actions, may save them from Allah’s wrath. The Lord of the heavens is Oft-Forgiving, He created the test for each, at the very beginning. He will not let anyone lose, Without offering them first, the chance to choose. Hence the main point is to seek, The Truth will come to those who are meek.
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nadir Senior Member Joined: 22 March 2005 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 120	Posted: 15 May 2005 at 9:07am
	Assalaamu alaikum O’ Angel…… what a beautiful person you are. My previous ‘tantrum’ was (believe it or not) because I love you (& I so want you to believe in Allah, Glorified be the Most High). Many of your comments were justified, & I would like use the attention (I drew toward you), to say to those I complained to, look at this fine example of a genuine & honest woman, if I ever saw a person who deserves to be Blessed, she is that person. Angel, may Allah (SWT) guide you, & shower you with Blessings of the greatest beauty (Insha Allah). Yes I am very frustrated with these so-called experts, as they have not allowed me (through their lack of support) the real opportunity, to help people. I wished to illustrate to you how confident I am (in Allah’s existence), & to point out that ‘they’ are unable to ‘touch me’, whether it be via knowledge, or physical might. I am hopeful you will understand that the people you mentioned (ie Newton etc.), brought something that was purely scientific, what I have discovered is science with the moral purpose (ie One Ilah – Allah). I also hope you will realise that it is the people who doubt that God exists (& doubt the Day of Judgement) that require a proof….. I have simply stated that if you doubt, I can show you proof! I fear (doing wrong by) Allah (SWT), fear that is magnified due to the evidence He has allowed me to discover. I fear that if I showed this to someone who did not believe beforehand, & continued not to believe afterwards, a severe punishment would descend upon them. Maybe the chief of IC will do nothing, but IC is now certainly aware that such information exists, I have a duty as a Muslim to share the knowledge bestowed upon me. If I may please quote from the Holy Qur’an [Surah-12: Yusuf] 39. “O two companions of the prison! Are many different lords (gods) better, or Allah, the One, the Irresistible?” 40. “You do not worship besides Him but only names which you have named (forged) – you and your fathers – for which Allah has sent down no authority. The command (or the judgement) is for none but Allah. He has commanded that you worship none but Him (ie His Monotheism); that is the (true) straight religion, but most men know not.” 41. “O two companions of the prison! As for one of you, he (as a servant) will pour out wine for his lord (king or master) to drink; and as for the other, he will be crucified and birds will eat from his head. Thus is the case judged concerning that which you both did inquire.” 42. And he said to the one whom he knew to be saved: “Mention me to your lord (ie your king, so as to get me out of prison)”. But shaitan (satan) made him forget to mention it to his lord. So [Yusuf, Joseph] stayed in prison a few more years. 43. And the king (of Egypt) said: “Verily, I saw (in a dream) seven fat cows, whom seven lean ones were devouring, and seven green ears of corn, and (seven) others dry. O notables! Explain to me my dream, if it be that you can interpret dreams.” 44. They said: “Mixed up false dreams and we are not skilled in the interpretation of dreams” 45. Then the man who was released (one of the two who were in the prison), now at length remembered and said: “I will tell you it’s interpretation, so send me forth.” 46. (He said): “O Yusuf, the man of truth! Explain to us (the dream) of seven fat cows whom seven lean ones were devouring, and of seven green ears of corn, and (seven) others dry, that I may return to the people, and that they may know.” ……. wasalaam nadir
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nadir Senior Member Joined: 22 March 2005 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 120	Posted: 15 May 2005 at 9:08am
	Greetings Deist Deist, it seems your philosophy accepts the notion that, there could be a God, & not just any old God (One Ilah – Allah). If this is a possibility, then surely you would be better served by trying to please God, rather than taking the gamble (despite not having proof). that He doesn’t exist, a gamble which may lead to eternal suffering in Hell!? nadir
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deist Senior Member Joined: 11 June 2001 Online Status: Offline Posts: 3568	Posted: 17 May 2005 at 12:39am
	*Originally posted by Alwardah* The fact that I am alive is no proof that I exist. Intriguing concept. Where did i say that ? Actually i said that the mere fact that you are alive is already proof.
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deist Senior Member Joined: 11 June 2001 Online Status: Offline Posts: 3568	Posted: 17 May 2005 at 3:26am
	*Originally posted by nadir* Greetings Deist Deist, it seems your philosophy accepts the notion that, there could be a God, & not just any old God (One Ilah – Allah). If this is a possibility, then surely you would be better served by trying to please God, rather than taking the gamble (despite not having proof). that He doesn’t exist, a gamble which may lead to eternal suffering in Hell!? nadir Whether i believe in God or not is not the issue in this thread nadir. What you do here is posting "pascals wager".
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nadir Senior Member Joined: 22 March 2005 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 120	Posted: 17 May 2005 at 2:28pm
	No chance, it’s the Almighty This chance you mention, how clever it must be To exist in a form more complex than man can perceive This chance you mention, how beautiful to perceive More beautiful than anything man has been able to conceive How perfect indeed, for a tree is a tree It obeys the command of the One I call the Almighty How ingenious indeed, this chance you perceive Ingenious however requires a conscious to be!!!!! Please tell me how I may be able to please This ingenious ‘chance’, greater than all I can see? Alhamdulilah Edited by nadir
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Kim

Allah’s predestination dictates, the ink is already dry!