IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum: Concept of Creation VS Chance

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Alwardah

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Posted: 10 May 2005 at 11:34am

As Salamu Alaikum

Yes you and Kim are absolutely correct, I am wasting your time and mine actually everyone's time, because I have no proof except what I read in the Glorious Qur'an and believe without a shadow of doubt that the universe was created by a Supreme Creator Allah.

"And be not as those who divided and differed among themselves after the clear proofs had come to them. It is they for whom there is an awful torment. " Surah Al-Imran 3: 105

What "clear proof" you may ask: The Glorious Qur'an and the Sunnah of Prophet Muhammad (Sallallahu 'Alayhi wa Sallam).

I don't have anything further to add.

Wa Alaikum Salam

“Verily your Lord is quick in punishment; yet He is indeed Oft-Forgiving Most Merciful (Surah Al-An’am 6:165)
"Indeed, we belong to Allah and to Him is our return" (Surah Baqarah 2: 155)

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deist

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Posted: 10 May 2005 at 11:08pm

Greetings and Peace,

Originally posted by Alwardah

As Salamu Alaikum

I dont believe people can "waste" time. And i didnt say that you wasted mine or yours either.
I only stated that you didnt present a proof but only claims and your belief. If we agree on that then we already archieved something dont you think ?

Again i say that i have no problem if someone believes in something.
I only wake up when someone says something about "proofs" because i am allways interested in proofs and logical arguments.
Thats all.

Anyway

Peace
Deist

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Alwardah

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Posted: 11 May 2005 at 2:00am

Hi Deist

I know that neither you nor Kim said or implied that I am wasting time but that is how I feel.

Basically you, more than anyone else knows that I cannot prove my claim, because it is part of the Unseen.

Darwin's theory of evolutions was formulated on what is seen and tangible. So yes you have plenty of proof to support your claim. So Insha Allah I think we agree on both points.

What I would be interested in getting proof regarding the soul, life and death from your evolution prospective. The Soul is something intangible part of the Unseen but I believe I have a soul, because if I had no soul I will not be typing this response.

Remember your argument is that we evolved, and were not created, so there is no Creator, thus no soul. What is the soul, where can I find it or see it? So how do u prove ur existence besides that fact that u are here alive today and dead tomorrow. I believe this brings us back to square one, we were created by a Supreme Creator Allah (God)

I would be interested to hear your comments.

Thanks

“Verily your Lord is quick in punishment; yet He is indeed Oft-Forgiving Most Merciful (Surah Al-An’am 6:165)
"Indeed, we belong to Allah and to Him is our return" (Surah Baqarah 2: 155)

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deist

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Posted: 11 May 2005 at 6:38am

Again here you make a mistake for there is no reason why a soul is needed to write a response. Since you cant even explain what a soul exactly is how then can you conclude that it hast to be existent to write something ?

See my point ?

Remember your argument is that we evolved, and were not created, so there is no Creator, thus no soul.

I dont see why evolution per se would rule out a God.

I dont see why evolution would rule out a "soul".

What is the soul, where can I find it or see it?

You already again assume that a soul has to exist. Yet you cant explain what it is yourself. Obviously you seem to think you "need" one but why you need it you cant explain.

So how do u prove ur existence besides that fact that u are here alive today and dead tomorrow.

And the fact that you are alive is not proof that you exist ?

Cognito ergo sum.

I think therefore i am.

What other proof do you want. Its absolutely conclusive.
I think your problem lies more in the point that existence alone is not enough for you. Perhaps you also want a "sense" of "purpose" in this existence. And that is given to you by your belief.

However these are two totally different things as i tried to say from the very start.

What gives your life a purpose is not a matter of evidence and proof but of belief and contentment. What life is or rather the proof of its existence is a matter of formal logic.

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Alwardah

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Posted: 11 May 2005 at 11:09am

Thanks Deist for your comments.

The fact that I am alive is no proof that I exist. Intriguing concept.

I have no more comment on this subject.

Very educational I must add.

Thanks once again.

“Verily your Lord is quick in punishment; yet He is indeed Oft-Forgiving Most Merciful (Surah Al-An’am 6:165)
"Indeed, we belong to Allah and to Him is our return" (Surah Baqarah 2: 155)

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kim!

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Posted: 11 May 2005 at 5:16pm

I don't see that evolution denies creation, or that science denies God.

When you create a meal then forget to put the leftovers in the fridge, does other life not evolve on the plate? (ie: bacteria and general blue-green fuzzy stuff)

Kim...

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Angel

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Posted: 11 May 2005 at 9:25pm

Originally posted by nadir

“You have made my life so unbearable, death is the most attractive thing to me….. so if you refuse to challenge me, please come and kill me, because there is nothing else here for me.”

This statement (& most of the others) were directed toward the Saudi’s, Iranian’s, Chinese, & Russians (also the masons), who continue to ignore me. They have made my life a misery through their selfish greed, & haughty imperialist attitudes. I want them to come and kill me, because they can’t come & prove me wrong, and hence they have left me in limbo.

Through their denial of me, they illustrate their real motivation (ie they do not care for anyone except their selves).

Nadir, if your post were directed at other people, then direct it at them and not at me personally, "everything" in your post was directed at me, you addressed it to me with my name!, so it was at me. How was I suppose to take it any other way ?? And that you made a complaint to the CEO of islamicity about me! And that you were going to the embassies about me! I was confused as I didn't think I did anything wrong, nor denied you anything, nothing like this has happened to me before here.

If it wasn't directed at me, then it was so unfair of you to do so , perhaps it was you that disrespected. Do you have any idea how I felt? I'm not even a scientists but I do have some knowledge.

I think in future you should distiguish between the people you speak here at the boards and those outside of it. And relax.

Edited by Angel

[IMG]http://www.mysmilie.de/smilies/engel/img/003.gif" />~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~

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Angel

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Posted: 11 May 2005 at 9:30pm

Originally posted by Alwardah

The fact that I am alive is no proof that I exist. Intriguing concept.

I think you misunderstood Deist's question.

[IMG]http://www.mysmilie.de/smilies/engel/img/003.gif" />~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~

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IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : General : Science & Technology

Topic: Concept of Creation VS Chance
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Author	Message
Alwardah Senior Member Joined: 25 March 2005 Location: South Africa Online Status: Offline Posts: 980	Posted: 10 May 2005 at 11:34am
	As Salamu Alaikum Yes you and Kim are absolutely correct, I am wasting your time and mine actually everyone's time, because I have no proof except what I read in the Glorious Qur'an and believe without a shadow of doubt that the universe was created by a Supreme Creator Allah. "And be not as those who divided and differed among themselves after the clear proofs had come to them. It is they for whom there is an awful torment. " Surah Al-Imran 3: 105 What "clear proof" you may ask: The Glorious Qur'an and the Sunnah of Prophet Muhammad (Sallallahu 'Alayhi wa Sallam). I don't have anything further to add. Wa Alaikum Salam
	“Verily your Lord is quick in punishment; yet He is indeed Oft-Forgiving Most Merciful (Surah Al-An’am 6:165) "Indeed, we belong to Allah and to Him is our return" (Surah Baqarah 2: 155)
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deist Senior Member Joined: 11 June 2001 Online Status: Offline Posts: 3568	Posted: 10 May 2005 at 11:08pm
	Greetings and Peace, *Originally posted by Alwardah* As Salamu Alaikum Yes you and Kim are absolutely correct, I am wasting your time and mine actually everyone's time, because I have no proof except what I read in the Glorious Qur'an and believe without a shadow of doubt that the universe was created by a Supreme Creator Allah. I dont believe people can "waste" time. And i didnt say that you wasted mine or yours either. I only stated that you didnt present a proof but only claims and your belief. If we agree on that then we already archieved something dont you think ? Again i say that i have no problem if someone believes in something. I only wake up when someone says something about "proofs" because i am allways interested in proofs and logical arguments. Thats all. Anyway Peace Deist
	IP Logged

Alwardah Senior Member Joined: 25 March 2005 Location: South Africa Online Status: Offline Posts: 980	Posted: 11 May 2005 at 2:00am
	Hi Deist I know that neither you nor Kim said or implied that I am wasting time but that is how I feel. Basically you, more than anyone else knows that I cannot prove my claim, because it is part of the Unseen. Darwin's theory of evolutions was formulated on what is seen and tangible. So yes you have plenty of proof to support your claim. So Insha Allah I think we agree on both points. What I would be interested in getting proof regarding the soul, life and death from your evolution prospective. The Soul is something intangible part of the Unseen but I believe I have a soul, because if I had no soul I will not be typing this response. Remember your argument is that we evolved, and were not created, so there is no Creator, thus no soul. What is the soul, where can I find it or see it? So how do u prove ur existence besides that fact that u are here alive today and dead tomorrow. I believe this brings us back to square one, we were created by a Supreme Creator Allah (God) I would be interested to hear your comments. Thanks
	“Verily your Lord is quick in punishment; yet He is indeed Oft-Forgiving Most Merciful (Surah Al-An’am 6:165) "Indeed, we belong to Allah and to Him is our return" (Surah Baqarah 2: 155)
	IP Logged

deist Senior Member Joined: 11 June 2001 Online Status: Offline Posts: 3568	Posted: 11 May 2005 at 6:38am
	What I would be interested in getting proof regarding the soul, life and death from your evolution prospective. The Soul is something intangible part of the Unseen but I believe I have a soul, because if I had no soul I will not be typing this response. Again here you make a mistake for there is no reason why a soul is needed to write a response. Since you cant even explain what a soul exactly is how then can you conclude that it hast to be existent to write something ? See my point ? Remember your argument is that we evolved, and were not created, so there is no Creator, thus no soul. I dont see why evolution per se would rule out a God. I dont see why evolution would rule out a "soul". What is the soul, where can I find it or see it? You already again assume that a soul has to exist. Yet you cant explain what it is yourself. Obviously you seem to think you "need" one but why you need it you cant explain. So how do u prove ur existence besides that fact that u are here alive today and dead tomorrow. And the fact that you are alive is not proof that you exist ? Cognito ergo sum. I think therefore i am. What other proof do you want. Its absolutely conclusive. I think your problem lies more in the point that existence alone is not enough for you. Perhaps you also want a "sense" of "purpose" in this existence. And that is given to you by your belief. However these are two totally different things as i tried to say from the very start. What gives your life a purpose is not a matter of evidence and proof but of belief and contentment. What life is or rather the proof of its existence is a matter of formal logic.
	IP Logged

Alwardah Senior Member Joined: 25 March 2005 Location: South Africa Online Status: Offline Posts: 980	Posted: 11 May 2005 at 11:09am
	Thanks Deist for your comments. The fact that I am alive is no proof that I exist. Intriguing concept. I have no more comment on this subject. Very educational I must add. Thanks once again.
	“Verily your Lord is quick in punishment; yet He is indeed Oft-Forgiving Most Merciful (Surah Al-An’am 6:165) "Indeed, we belong to Allah and to Him is our return" (Surah Baqarah 2: 155)
	IP Logged

kim! Senior Member Joined: 17 September 2001 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 2390	Posted: 11 May 2005 at 5:16pm
	I don't see that evolution denies creation, or that science denies God. When you create a meal then forget to put the leftovers in the fridge, does other life not evolve on the plate? (ie: bacteria and general blue-green fuzzy stuff) Kim...
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Angel Senior Member Joined: 03 July 2001 Online Status: Offline Posts: 6626	Posted: 11 May 2005 at 9:25pm
	*Originally posted by nadir* “You have made my life so unbearable, death is the most attractive thing to me….. so if you refuse to challenge me, please come and kill me, because there is nothing else here for me.” This statement (& most of the others) were directed toward the Saudi’s, Iranian’s, Chinese, & Russians (also the masons), who continue to ignore me. They have made my life a misery through their selfish greed, & haughty imperialist attitudes. I want them to come and kill me, because they can’t come & prove me wrong, and hence they have left me in limbo. Through their denial of me, they illustrate their real motivation (ie they do not care for anyone except their selves). Nadir, if your post were directed at other people, then direct it at them and not at me personally, "everything" in your post was directed at me, you addressed it to me with my name!, so it was at me. How was I suppose to take it any other way ?? And that you made a complaint to the CEO of islamicity about me! And that you were going to the embassies about me! I was confused as I didn't think I did anything wrong, nor denied you anything, nothing like this has happened to me before here. If it wasn't directed at me, then it was so unfair of you to do so , perhaps it was you that disrespected. Do you have any idea how I felt? I'm not even a scientists but I do have some knowledge. *I think in future you should distiguish between the people you speak here at the boards and those outside of it. And relax.* Edited by Angel
	[IMG]http://www.mysmilie.de/smilies/engel/img/003.gif" />~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~
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Angel Senior Member Joined: 03 July 2001 Online Status: Offline Posts: 6626	Posted: 11 May 2005 at 9:30pm
	*Originally posted by Alwardah* The fact that I am alive is no proof that I exist. Intriguing concept. I think you misunderstood Deist's question.
	[IMG]http://www.mysmilie.de/smilies/engel/img/003.gif" />~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~
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