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tufail
 
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Quote tufail Replybullet Posted: 25 July 2005 at 3:37am
In the Book, Creation AND/OR Evolution: An Islamic Perspective by T.O.Shanavas (ISBN # 1-4134-6580-3 published by Xlibris publishers

http://www2.xlibris.com/bookstore/bookdisplay.asp?bookid=232 95), there is a chapter on chance & God. It will answer and raise many questions.

Tufail

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Angel
 
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Quote Angel Replybullet Posted: 08 August 2005 at 8:57am

Well, I'm not sure if you are still here or not, if you are here goes

Originally posted by midway

 

O sweet Angel, unto you I do return

 

and same here, apologies for taking soooooooo long

 

Originally posted by midway

Originally posted by Angel

As much as I believe that - I believe it (science) is much more than that.

And I've come to know that its not the scientists job to prove or disprove God.

There are scientists who believe in God's existence and there are scientists that don't.

I don't believe I missunderstood when I posed those 2 questions of mine. I don't believe science is there to prove morality or not, partly why I asked why does science have to have moral purpose ?

 

“Why does science have to have God (in it)?”

O sweet Angel, softly whisper in my ear, what is the purpose of this science, of which I hear?

 

As finely poetic that sounded  I'm not sure what you are getting at.

Do you think you can answer my questions ?

 

Originally posted by midway

Originally posted by Angel

But Nadir, you are coming from Islam! Not everyone believes the purpose of existence is to worship Allah/God. And not everyone believes in Islam whether they are scientists or not. (Not that should shut the door on some knowledge islam may offer).

 

OK, now as midway, on a level plane we stand…

 

ok but I believe its not midway anymore

 

“(Not that should shut the door on some knowledge Islam may offer)”

If you are attracted to ‘some’ of the knowledge Islam offers, will you please share with me your – ‘some not’?

I wasn't talking specifically about myself here.

Originally posted by midway

Originally posted by Angel

{{You do realise this is all presumptions of us here ;-) so nothing is probably truth?}}

Why are they foolish because they have different result/evidence to believe in God from you ?

"If they have already made a conclusion, does that mean they profess to know the Unseen?"

No of course not, as I said earlier its not their job. Believing in God is somewhat a personally issue. I believe in God and have a few things that go with it but it does not make me know the unseen.

Do you profess to know the unseen ?

I know I am not wasting my time with you! And I am sure you could show me a thing or two about God & Luuuuve!!!!! heee heee

 

 maybe

 

Does the one who seeks to unravel a mystery, know what they will discover?

 

Why do you answer my questions with a question ? (lol, I just did the very thing you do to me)

Originally posted by midway

Originally posted by Angel

Where did Darwin come into this

What I mean is that I agree with Deist when he mentioned its not whether one believes or not in God - even though he spoke about himself. I'm not sure what Darwin has to do with it?

 

Darwin’s theory of evolution is one of the foundations supporting atheistic (ie Chance as a pose to Creation) scientific opinions, hence the reason I mentioned it/him.

 

o.k, but the thoery of evolution can be a foundation/s for supporting theistics, afterall Darwin himself was a believer in religion and God.

 

Originally posted by midway

Originally posted by Angel

Again repeat :

And I am not sure what this has to with Creation vs Chance”

Nadir, since you came in with your talk perhaps you can tell us what your talk has to do with creation vs chance? I think somewhere along the line it got missed as nearly all has to do with that you have evidence for the existence of God

 

I mentioned the science I know of, in this debate, because it supports the Creationist side of the argument. Sorry I have been ‘hard-work’, true wisdom/knowledge will have the effect of humbling, as a pose to making one haughty. 

 

If I remember correctly, you haven't exactly explained your argument / put forth, just that you have evidence for.        

 

Originally posted by midway

Originally posted by Angel

nadir wrote:
If I may enlighten you with regards to evolution, and REAL chance/choice…

If you were to believe Darwin’s theory, then the thing we call LOVE, is simply a genetically inherited trait, which has been passed down through the genes, as it enhances the chance of human survival. Hence in Darwinian terms there is less choice than in Creationism, as it least in Creationism - LOVE - is a real emotion, which we are free to give (& accept) to whom we please. Darwin’s theory suggests that, LOVE is merely genetic instinct, of which we have no control!

 

This perhaps requires a new thread.

 

From my own personal experience…

Within the Chance side of the debate, I (as an emotional entity) am incapacitated…

This is because ‘I’ am merely a product of genetic inheritance. From here, this thing I know of as Love, is a predetermined trait! Hence I am (genetically) restricted in how much it/I can grow & achieve. (From experience) I (personally) have no hope here…

Within the Creationist side of the debate, I am free…

God has promised that, if I do good works & grow closer to Him, the possibilities are endless. From here, I can take my Love (a real emotion) & improve, beautify and expand it immeasurably. I have hope here… hope that comforts my soul

 

As said this bit requires another thread.

I don't exactly agree with points you mention. All I say is this, Love is more than emotion, It is a state of being. All good comes from love, from the act of love.

 

 

and lastly....  

 

Where does it say that Darwin's theory is perfect ?

Where does it say that Darwin's theory is the sole theory of life on/in this universe? /evolution ?

 

~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~
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AtheistforLife
 
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Quote AtheistforLife Replybullet Posted: 29 August 2005 at 9:50am

 

http://www.atheistnetwork.com/viewtopic.php?t=4207&start =0

Where is your evidence of a Deity? That is the only relevant question.

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Whisper
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Quote Whisper Replybullet Posted: 29 August 2005 at 10:26am
AtheistforLife! What a screen name. Is that a promise, a threat or a mere state of mind?
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AtheistforLife
 
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Quote AtheistforLife Replybullet Posted: 30 August 2005 at 10:27am

All I asked is give me some (empirical) proof of your deity or any deity?

 

Atheists have nothing to defend (literally). So why just not give us one piece, one tiny scrap, of hard and empirical evidence that your god exists?

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Suleyman
 
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Quote Suleyman Replybullet Posted: 30 August 2005 at 12:04pm

May be i am listening too much Bob Marley....

Survival





Bob Marley




How can you be sitting there 
Telling me that you care
That you care
When everytime I look around
The people suffer in suffering
In everyway.  In everywhere

Na-na-na-na-na
We're the survivors; yes, the black survival

I tell you what
Some people got everything
Some poeple got nothing
Some people got hopes and dreams
Some people got ways and means

Na-na-na-na-na
We're the survivors; yes, the black survival
Yes we're the survivors like
Daniel out of the lions' den, survivors, survivors

So my brethren, my sisthren
Which way will we choose
We better hurry, oh hurry woe now
'Cause we got no time to lose

Some people got facts and claims
Some peole got pride and shame
Some people got the plots and schemes
Some people got no aim it seems

Na-na-na-na-na
We're the survivors; yes, the black survival
We're the survivors; yes, the black survival
We're the survivors like shadrach, meshach and abednego
Thrown in the fire but never get burn

So my brethren, my sisthren
The preaching and talking is done
We gotta live up woe now, woe now
'Cause the father's time has come
Some people put the best outside
Some people keep the best inside
Some people can't stand up strong
Some people won't wait for long

Na-na-na-na-na
We're the survivors; a black survival
In this age of technological inhumanity
We're the survivors black survival
Scientific atrocity, we're the survivors
Atomic mis-philosophy, we're the survivors
Nuclear mis-energy
It's a world that forces lifelong insecurity
All together now we're the survivors
Yes, the black survival
A good man is never honoured in his own country, black survival
Nothing change, nothing strange
Nothing change, nothing strange
We got to survive, we've got to survive
But to live as one equal in the eyes of the almighty


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