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Message Icon Topic: A fair discussion on my beloved Kashmir Post Reply Post New Topic
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Whisper
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Quote Whisper Replybullet Posted: 06 September 2006 at 8:54pm

 

brother Whisper, i never said pakistan is india's enemy nor i posted this topic against muslims. 

My post didn't imply anything of the sort.

there are millitant hindus and muslims who do not want us to be peaceful. come to india and you will find as many masjids as there are temples.

I am often in India and am quite at ease about understanding India. 


just go to indian kashmir and see for yourself how people are treated. no kashmiri helps a terrorist. when i said kashmir will turn into another taleban in regard to its poor people.  poverty breeds unethical behaviour.

 

If poverty breeds such behaviour then we would have a huge problem in India with or without the Kashmiris. Poverty is used as a mere excuse and almost as a lid to keep the truth from oozing out in the open, by our civilised masters.

Injustice and militaristic arrogance breeds terrorism.

 

Brother, weren't they okay before we turned the Kashmiri into an enemy?

then what did hindus or buddhists do in afghanistan?  why were those temples and monastries destroyed? 

How shall we hold what happened in Afghanistan against the poor Kashmiris?

 

this is why i say kashmir will be another taleban. why can't the religion and the state kept separate?

Right now penalising Kashmiris for something they haven’t as yet done is a bit like Sardar jee’s hore choopo ganay. Have you heard about that?

 

Right now, it’s us, the entire global community that has failed them.

We are the culprits. Let’s correct ourselves and give them their right, let them exercise their right of self –determination. Once, we have done that and they start to misbehave with us then we would all get together and beat them up!

 

My friend, best to befriend all our neighbours. The west is keeping these swords hanging over our heads to keep our actual potential in check. Sit up one day, see beyond the interesting headlines and we will find that both the Indians and the Pakistanis have a common enemy.
thank you Whisper for agreeing with me.  i have been saying the same thing in many of my posts.

They have far more than just a few languages, customs or a range of cuisine in common.


these naxallites have to be checked as well.  if naxalites and terrorists join hands, then it will be the worst of situations.

 

My point is that Talibanisation comes in a whole range of colours.

All the countries of the region must grow up and start acting in own best interest. It’s in the best interest of India, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Central Asian States + Iran to form something like the union you described earlier

- with a common friend, Kashmir, in their middle.

 

Brother, Kashmir was an independent sovereign state. The Brits messed it up. I can´t tell you here, but I will PM you the secret why the Brits can´t stay without messing things up!

 

interesting brother Whisper!

someone comes and occupies the territory and it becomes their own!?

Kashmir was an independent state centuries before Yelderum appeared on the Indian scene. History of Kashmir pre-dates the Muslim arrival in the sub-continent and it was a much bigger state than quite a few others, at one point. It was a whole country.

muslims have been saying that your country, i.e., spain was a muslim country...  why would anyone say such a thing?  wasn't spain
occupied by the muslims?

 

Some Muslims have to learn a few lessons, Spain was never “occupied” by just the Muslims. The Toledo Effect –Muslims, Christians and the Jews ran it jointly. Shall we say, almost, as it was the communities that ran India. The chap in the Lal Qilla was almost like a life President of this union.

 

Kashmir has every right to become an independent state.

brother, who would guarentee the well being of the hindus and buddhists there?

Bhai, that is a very interesting question.

The Buddhists, Hindus and the Muslims lived together in Kashmir for a long time.

Was it a problem before we violated the Kashmiris’ basic right of self-determination?

 

P o l u t i c i a n s create problems and when people have “found” each other, they always get together to put p o l u t i c i a n s in their right place.

 

It’s a process.

It does take its time, but we must start from somewhere. If ever anything goes wrong, I will personally ask Javed Akhtar, Gulzar or Shabbana Azmi to fix it. You know, India is the only country in the world where people believe more in what Shah Rukh Khan or Aswiriya Rai says than even its Prime Minister!


hindus and buddhists were driven out of pakistan's kashmir and now you want the remaining also to be driven out and the rest of kashmir kept open for the occupation by china?

Nearly 10 million Muslims were driven out of India. Almost a million were killed. Why would anyone drive anyone out in a normal situation?

Is the present situation of turmoil more loveable?

 

We now live in the day of Human Rights and a few other sensitivities. The concept of lands and countries is becoming obsolete. We must strive to create comfy situations for all beings. India is a huge country, make peace with the Kashmiris and then send Aswiriya Rai there. See what happens1

But why should China wish to colonise Kashmir? Specially, when it holds the US to ransom?

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Quote mohammad Replybullet Posted: 06 September 2006 at 8:55pm

" The negotiations have just been dragging the Kashmir issue since about the past 50 years, without any solution. People have been dying on both sides of the border. Have negotiations helped to calm the situation? No. The situation gets tense and worse day by day."

 

You are quite right.

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Quote s666 Replybullet Posted: 07 September 2006 at 10:07am
brother mohammad, i doubt you.  so dont want to reply to any of your posts.  you sometimes post with good english and some other times feign to be not so good at english.

can a non-muslim be the head of the state of pakistan?  if kashmir were made independent or given to pakistan, people will definitely not be treated equally.
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Quote s666 Replybullet Posted: 07 September 2006 at 10:40am
Originally posted by Whisper

My post didn't imply anything of the sort.


yaar, what do you mean by "My friend, best to befriend all our neighbours.".

Originally posted by Whisper

I am often in India and am quite at ease about understanding India.


thats good brother, hope to meet you one day.

Originally posted by Whisper

If poverty breeds such behaviour then we would have a huge problem in India with or without the Kashmiris. Poverty is used as a mere excuse and almost as a lid to keep the truth from oozing out in the open, by our civilised masters.

Injustice and militaristic arrogance breeds terrorism.


thats good!  that might be the difference.  didn't you hear about Operation Gibraltar?

did you ever go to kashmir brother? (not pakistan's kashmir)

Originally posted by Whisper

How shall we hold what happened in Afghanistan against the poor Kashmiris?


brother, it already happened.  most of the temples in kashmir have been desecrated and their are no non-muslims in pakistan's kashmir.  and kashmiri is spoken by few in pakistan's kashmir.

Originally posted by Whisper

Right now penalising Kashmiris for something they haven’t as yet done is a bit like Sardar jee’s hore choopo ganay. Have you heard about that?

Right now, it’s us, the entire global community that has failed them.

We are the culprits. Let’s correct ourselves and give them their right, let them exercise their right of self –determination. Once, we have done that and they start to misbehave with us then we would all get together and beat them up!



just look at it brother, you keep calling kashmir and kashmiri all the time.  but who is protecting the kashmiri culture?  when you say kashmiri, i am afraid that you do not include a non-muslim.

Originally posted by Whisper

They have far more than just a few languages, customs or a range of cuisine in common.



Originally posted by Whisper

My point is that Talibanisation comes in a whole range of colours.

All the countries of the region must grow up and start acting in own best interest. It’s in the best interest of India, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Central Asian States + Iran to form something like the union you described earlier

- with a common friend, Kashmir, in their middle.



brother, the problem is india does not have a state religion whereas others do.  the OIC hasn't approved india to be its member though it has the second largest muslim population.  so at one point of time or another, i fear they may desert india.

Originally posted by Whisper

Kashmir was an independent state centuries before Yelderum appeared on the Indian scene. History of Kashmir pre-dates the Muslim arrival in the sub-continent and it was a much bigger state than quite a few others, at one point. It was a whole country.


brother, do you know what "Kashmir" means?  why does anyone call that part of the world "Kashmir"?

Originally posted by Whisper

Bhai, that is a very interesting question.

The Buddhists, Hindus and the Muslims lived together in Kashmir for a long time.

Was it a problem before we violated the Kashmiris’ basic right of self-determination?



if someone violated something, why should be the natives murdered?  aren't the buddhists and hindus kashmiris?  why should their temples be desecrated?

Originally posted by Whisper

It does take its time, but we must start from somewhere. If ever anything goes wrong, I will personally ask Javed Akhtar, Gulzar or Shabbana Azmi to fix it. You know, India is the only country in the world where people believe more in what Shah Rukh Khan or Aswiriya Rai says than even its Prime Minister!


i love india!

Originally posted by Whisper

Nearly 10 million Muslims were driven out of India. Almost a million were killed. Why would anyone drive anyone out in a normal situation?

Is the present situation of turmoil more loveable?



brother, partition was really a bad thing.  but seriously, were muslims alone?  what about the hindus and sikhs?  yet there are more muslims in india than in pakistan.  by the way did you see amir khan starrer "Sarfarosh"?

Originally posted by Whisper

We now live in the day of Human Rights and a few other sensitivities. The concept of lands and countries is becoming obsolete. We must strive to create comfy situations for all beings. India is a huge country, make peace with the Kashmiris and then send Aswiriya Rai there. See what happens1

But why should China wish to colonise Kashmir? Specially, when it holds the US to ransom?



brother, now i live far away from kashmir in the heart of india where people live peacefully.  here you need not be from a particular community to do a particular thing.  but whenever i hear about kashmir in the news, i feel ashamed.

pakistan has already given some of kashmir to china.
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Quote Whisper Replybullet Posted: 08 September 2006 at 10:41am

Both the countries know very well that the third party {US} is in advantage and it does not want us to finalise something. 

The most interesting thing is that even a panwala in Dilli or a Lahori chatwala knows that, but somehow our “lidders’ interests lie elsewhere!

You and me talk of numerous solutions and suppose even if we come to a final one its of no use. They enjoy blood shed at both the sides.

Brother, no one enjoys bloodshed. It’s just that the vested interests make huge profits in wars. We need to counter that through thorough informal education.

A pakistani family who visited our neighbours, said the same, that its the media which is fanning the hatred amongst both the countries.

Media survives with “Crown” patronage. Those in power supply its bread n butter. Let’s set up our own full time Peace Media. In this day and age we don’t really need huge printing presses to place anything in the public domain. We can start a small web based group, which is convinced that we have no better option than peace.

 

I remember, once I was at a conference. I propose peace between these two neighbours. It was a time of hot irons on the both sides. My suggestion was simple – let’s denounce arms on both the sides and IF we don’t find it more profitable for our people we can always get or laathis out and start bashing one n other!

That family had a school going boy who spent his time with us. Naturally we had a good bond of friendship. Before he left us we asked him, "When will u b back Khurram?" We all were awstruck by his answer. He said, " I will return India only as a soldier"

Poor Khurram! He didn’t know that there are far better things than soldiering in our world.

Teaching just as an example.

Am not blaming any country men but what i want to say is we achieved nothing except HATRED with those white collar meetings. And as "Mohammed" suggested war is the solution--------, But i feel no. It again spreads hatred for muslims in India.

I respect Mohammad. I hold him very dear, he is one the finest Kashmiris I have met in my years. What option has the great civilised community left him other than to believe that war is the only way out?

Its happening that during any of the blasts or even a small incidents occur, innocent muslims are put in jails naming then as "Terrorist". May be one amongst 50 is a wrong person but the rest 49 are put in jails with the same proofs and verifications. 

I should think, one out of 500 Indian Muslims would behave in any odd way.

Lets leave this issue for some more years and the coming generations will forget it. 

Yaar, you mean our Masters will let us forget bones of contention thrown by them?

"Being neighbours thodi bahoth khit- pit tho jayaz hai"

It may be jayez for some Amjad Khans, the Indians have been living in comfort with each other for a thousand years. If we shoot all lidders on both sides – the truth will come out that people are basically people and they want a bit of peace at the end of their day’s toil.

The Lidders keep the lid on this truth.

Also Hats Off to the knowledge of our member "Whisper" . Being from a different place he has got a very deep knowledge of India.

Thanks for your compliment, but India is the biggest reality in my street?

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Quote Whisper Replybullet Posted: 23 September 2006 at 2:27am
Where have all the Kashmir lovers gone?
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Quote s666 Replybullet Posted: 06 October 2006 at 9:18am
you haven't answered my post Whisper bhai... (last post in page 2)
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Quote skygazer Replybullet Posted: 06 October 2006 at 8:53pm
Here's a silly suggestion: why not have the people who live there vote on what kind of country they want?
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