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s666
 
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Quote s666 Replybullet Topic: A fair discussion on my beloved Kashmir
    Posted: 28 August 2006 at 7:00am
hi everyone!

i just want to start a discussion on kashmir.

what do you think about kashmir?

should it be independent or should it be a part of india or pakistan or should the line of control be made the international boundary?

i personally feel that it should be a part of india.  it is of course my personal opinion.  i feel so because kashmir has been a part of india for millennia and india does not give any preference to a particular religion.  this has been the trend all the time.  one cannot part it in the name of religion.
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Quote mohammad Replybullet Posted: 03 September 2006 at 5:16am

  You pose a question about the future of Kashmir which is well known as  " Heaven of the Earth" but unfortunatley rightnow burning in the fire. In my opinion first of all India & Pakistan withdraw their armies then they give us right of selfdetermination where we can decide about our future. If we get the chance of right of self determination my vote will go in favor of an independent Kashmir.



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Whisper
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Quote Whisper Replybullet Posted: 04 September 2006 at 11:32am

i personally feel that it should be a part of india.  it is of course my personal opinion.  i feel so because kashmir has been a part of india for millennia and india does not give any preference to a particular religion.

Brother, I respect your sentiment, I am very fond of India and, specially, her unique spread of cultures, people, aromas and whatelesnot. It's sad how her colonial masters dismembered her.

But, we need to look at quite a few things before we discuss this sore left between people who had otherwise shared Eid and Diwali together for a far longer while than London louts would wish us to believe.

Kashmir, like Deccan, was always an independent sovereign state. When we study the Indian history, we find that Gwalior, Oudh and 342 other small and medium sized states were also independent soverign states, but these joined the "Union" through an Instrument of Accession.

Sometimes after the Sikh wars, our Great Brits annexed Kashmir and sold it to the Dogras, for a price that even a East End (London) thug won't accept for his stolen goods! Lock, stock, the valley and her people were sold for 7.5 million rupees.

Accession was linked with one other condition; the demographic make up of the state. Hari Singh wanted to stay independent of either country, but was pushed to execute the Instrument of Accession in an interesting James Bond style move.

The Kashmiris had already had enough of Bari Saerkaar's alcoholic high handedness, they rose against being again sold off gainst their will. 

The UN intervened. The civilised nations of our world promised them that if they ceased fire, we will hold a plebecite to find out what they wished to do.

My friend, the easy going, fine natured, one of the finest craftsman and artisan, Kashmiri waited patiently for the civilised nations to deliver on their promise after laying arms one frozen February morning in 1948. (sorry, I am no scholar and don't remember the exact date)

They waited a whole generation. We did nothing. Our inaction forced them to pick up arms and start on a journey of their struggle. And, now India has been bogged down in the valley for almost a couple of decades. This seems to have given India nothing other than an occassional Bollywood bumper boxoffice hit based on some valliant kashmir script.

Won't it be good, both, for India and Pakistan (in our electronic age, which has renederd territorial control as a smelly baggage of the some distant past) to set up Kashmir with open borders with both the countries if not also with China and Central Asia - and have an example of realtime global trading and tourism at our doorsteps?

I love India and Pakistan, but they idiotically keep growling at each other while the real enemy dances all the way to the bank with their defence budgets.

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Quote s666 Replybullet Posted: 04 September 2006 at 9:09pm
Originally posted by mohammad

  You pose a question about the future of Kashmir which is well known as  " Heaven of the Earth" but unfortunatley rightnow burning in the fire. In my opinion first of all India & Pakistan withdraw their armies then they give us right of selfdetermination where we can decide about our future. If we get the chance of right of self determination my vote will go in favor of an independent Kashmir.



thank you.
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Quote s666 Replybullet Posted: 04 September 2006 at 9:20pm
Originally posted by Whisper

Brother, I respect your sentiment, I am very fond of India and, specially, her unique spread of cultures, people, aromas and whatelesnot. It's sad how her colonial masters dismembered her.

But, we need to look at quite a few things before we discuss this sore left between people who had otherwise shared Eid and Diwali together for a far longer while than London louts would wish us to believe.



thank you brother.  never bother about the past, we still celebrate eid and diwali together.

Originally posted by Whisper

Kashmir, like Deccan, was always an independent sovereign state. When we study the Indian history, we find that Gwalior, Oudh and 342 other small and medium sized states were also independent soverign states, but these joined the "Union" through an Instrument of Accession.


brother, kashmir, deccan etc were independent states since around 500 years.  before that they were indeed part of india.  india was similar to the european union.

i have my own reservations for kashmir. 

what happened to all those hindu pundits and the temples in kashmir?

why is urdu and not kashmiri the language of pakistan controlled kashmir?

why aren't there any hindus or buddhists in pakistan controlled kashmir?

thumbs up for a plebescite, but do you really think the problem of terrorism will subside if kashmir was made independent?

i am afraid it would just become another taleban.
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Quote Whisper Replybullet Posted: 05 September 2006 at 2:13am

thumbs up for a plebescite, but do you really think the problem of terrorism will subside if kashmir was made independent?

Yaar, be honest, when did you last see someone becoming a terrorist if treated as a human being? of couse, other than in US movies or in the White Supremacist propoganda?

The kasmiris have lived at peace with their neighbours since god knows when. How many neighbours have they overrun in, say, these 2020 years? What do we expect from people when we refuse to honour our promises and break them with military might and the collusion of some divine civilised nations? Garlands and baggoo goshes? (Kashmiri pear, the finest ever you could taste in the world. It just melts by the time it travels out of the state)

Try it and you will see that the Kashmiri will be as cute as some Lucknow Kidwais.

i am afraid it would just become another taleban.
I never knew you will digest such a lame excuse designed, primarily, for scaring the intelligence-defficient Americans' pants off and also to mute a growing voice within India.

We talibanise people with our colonial designes and attrocities, It has nothing to do someone's blood group or ethnic background. That's a mere figment of Zionist imagination.

brother, kashmir, deccan etc were independent states since around 500 years.  before that they were indeed part of india.  india was similar to the european union.

Very hard to find anything like that since Alexander. We may have look into the Ashoka period, but a union, as you say, like the EU is not exactly how we are treating people? I never knew, we grow nukes to invite our neighbours to a Sunday afternoon Re-union party?

Indian Congress and the great Brits manufactured Pakistan - for the noble purpose of diluting the the largest minority vote bank (the Indian Muslims) and as a deterent to the historic links the Indian Mussalmaan had with the Trucial (now known as the Gulf) states. Our good old Cricket fame Sharjah royal, Qasmi's mother was a Mumbaite. The famous UAE NeoCon, Khaleej Time's Galadari's grandmother was an Indian Muslim.

The list goes on and on. We just need to examine the Princes College records.

Jinnah never wanted a separate state. He was pushed by the Hang Low Sexnon cunning.

what happened to all those hindu pundits and the temples in kashmir?

Brother, weren't they okay before we turned the Kashmiri into an enemy?

why aren't there any hindus or buddhists in pakistan controlled kashmir?
Please educate me, I am really as lost. But all of this may have something to do with the great British gift of ethnic cleansing India?

How many Rabbis do we now find in Ramallah?

My friend, best to befriend all our neighbours. The west is keeping these swords hanging over our heads to keep our actual potential in check. Sit up one day, see beyond the interesting headlines and we will find that bot the Indians and the Pakistanis have a common enemy.

(What should we call the Nangas and the Naxalites - Nangxibaans?)



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Quote Muhammad77 Replybullet Posted: 05 September 2006 at 4:06am

     My personal opinion :-

1) No side would agree to hand over Kashmir to other side. If any side wants to gain control of Kashmir, the only way by which they can get it is by WAR.

2) If there should be no war, then both sides should agree to have Kashmir, in the sense that half of Kashmir goes to Pakistan, and the remaining half goes to India.

3) If that is also not possible then the only last option left is an Independent Kashmir.

    Kashmir issue is a very complicated and sensitive issue, and the solution will not come any soon, and also would there be any solution to this issue, we do not know.

 



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Quote Whisper Replybullet Posted: 05 September 2006 at 7:44am

3) If that is also not possible then the only last option left is an Independent Kashmir.

Brother, Kashmir was an independent sovereign state. The Brits messed it up. I can´t tell you here, but I will PM you the secret why the Brits can´t stay without messing things up!

Kashmir has every right to become an independent state.

And, if I were a Kashmiri, I would sue the Brits and also the Indians for compensation.

In fact, the Indians and the Pakis should also sue the Brits for mesing their lives and a few other things up. I feel, a couple of trillion pounds would should do. I know a "no win, no fee" lawyer in London.

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