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Angel
 
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Quote Angel Replybullet Posted: 18 August 2006 at 7:29am
Originally posted by Muhammad77

Originally posted by Angel

Originally posted by Muhammad77

Originally posted by Angel

Originally posted by Andalus

Originally posted by fogtrik

If man never got here by common desendants, then tell me how he did?   

He was Created.

But the argument is that religion, is on the side that human beings were created as we are today but in science/evolution there is indiction that we evolved & adapted to our evironment.  

Most of the scientists are atheists who DO NOT believe in God.

so! and what's your point? and what has it got to do with my point above ?

are we suppose to give up on science because some scientists are atheist??

by the way there are many scientists WHO DO believe in God, and for some of them it strengthens their belief in God.  

But those scientists who believe in God do not make their own fake theories.

are you saying that those who believe in God put up all true possiblities while the atheist make up theirs?

If anyone puts up a fake theory it is going to be revealed by others, so I don't know why they would do that especially if they are TRUE scientists be it atheists or believers.

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Muhammad77
 
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Quote Muhammad77 Replybullet Posted: 18 August 2006 at 7:38am
Originally posted by Angel

Originally posted by Muhammad77

Originally posted by Angel

Originally posted by Muhammad77

Originally posted by Angel

Originally posted by Andalus

Originally posted by fogtrik

If man never got here by common desendants, then tell me how he did?   

He was Created.

But the argument is that religion, is on the side that human beings were created as we are today but in science/evolution there is indiction that we evolved & adapted to our evironment.  

Most of the scientists are atheists who DO NOT believe in God.

so! and what's your point? and what has it got to do with my point above ?

are we suppose to give up on science because some scientists are atheist??

by the way there are many scientists WHO DO believe in God, and for some of them it strengthens their belief in God.  

But those scientists who believe in God do not make their own fake theories.

are you saying that those who believe in God put up all true possiblities while the atheist make up theirs?

If anyone puts up a fake theory it is going to be revealed by others, so I don't know why they would do that especially if they are TRUE scientists be it atheists or believers.

Atheist's theory can NEVER be true. A scientist who believes in God, his theory MAY BE true.

I do not believe in any of them and it is not to be believed.

Masha'Allah I believe in what Allah has revealed in the Qur'an because it is THE TRUTH !

 



Edited by Muhammad77
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Andalus
 
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Quote Andalus Replybullet Posted: 18 August 2006 at 7:59am
Originally posted by Angel

Originally posted by Andalus

Originally posted by fogtrik

If man never got here by common desendants, then tell me how he did?   

He was Created.

But the argument is that religion, is on the side that human beings were created as we are today but in science/evolution there is indiction that we evolved & adapted to our evironment.  

This is incoorect as it is based upon their definition of what is supposed to be allowed and what is not. IN other words, in the past, the idea of a Creator when looking at nature was not an oddity until now. This is yet another trick by these guys.

There is no solid evidence that shows man evolved. These people have taken observations, and then superimposed their idea of reality onto it. Their theory requires you to also assume their metaphysical assumptions.    

My saying tha ma was Created by Gd is as valid as anyone saying that we came from an animal by way of evolution. One must assume this tenent of faith to actually believe their views of the evidence.

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Angel
 
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Quote Angel Replybullet Posted: 18 August 2006 at 8:34am

Originally posted by Muhammad77

Atheist's theory can NEVER be true.

Why? because he/she doesn't believe in God? That is nonsense.

A scientist who believes in God, his theory MAY BE true.

While I say you have to be right with the above statement, and while no theory is fact.........

why is it different for atheists?

A theory is a theory it is not fact nor true and theories change when something new and advancement in the field comes along (this is why Darwin's theory on evolution is not perfect), be it coming from believers of God or atheists.

 

I do not believe in any of them and it is not to be believed.

Masha'Allah I believe in what Allah has revealed in the Qur'an because it is THE TRUTH !

you can believe what you want to believe

~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~
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Angel
 
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Quote Angel Replybullet Posted: 18 August 2006 at 8:46am
Originally posted by Andalus

Originally posted by Angel

Originally posted by Andalus

Originally posted by fogtrik

If man never got here by common desendants, then tell me how he did?   

He was Created.

But the argument is that religion, is on the side that human beings were created as we are today but in science/evolution there is indiction that we evolved & adapted to our evironment.  

This is incoorect as it is based upon their definition of what is supposed to be allowed and what is not. IN other words, in the past, the idea of a Creator when looking at nature was not an oddity until now. This is yet another trick by these guys.

There is no solid evidence that shows man evolved. These people have taken observations, and then superimposed their idea of reality onto it. Their theory requires you to also assume their metaphysical assumptions.    

My saying tha ma was Created by Gd is as valid as anyone saying that we came from an animal by way of evolution. One must assume this tenent of faith to actually believe their views of the evidence.

guess the points possibly right.

There is no solid evidence that shows man evolved. These people have taken observations, and then superimposed their idea of reality onto it. Their theory requires you to also assume their metaphysical assumptions.    

while that may true, the first sentence having no evidence, all i have to say is - Yet

I think the mistake people make (not talking about you but in general) is thinking that we should have all the evidence now. Just because there is no (solid) evidence of something "now" does not mean that there won't be in the future. But I guess you know that already

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Quote fogtrik Replybullet Posted: 18 August 2006 at 9:00am

 

There is plenty of evidence that man evolved, you just can't understand and accept it?

The most widely accepted view among current anthropologists is that Homo sapiens originated in the African savanna between 200,000 and 250,000 years ago, descending from Homo erectus, and colonized Eurasia and Oceania by 40,000 years ago, and finally colonized the Americas by 10,000 years ago.[17] They displaced Homo neanderthalensis, Homo floresiensis and other species descended from Homo erectus (which had colonized Eurasia as early as 2 million years ago) through more successful reproduction and competition for resources.

new DNA evidence suggests that (perhaps) Neanderthal Man died out and that Modern Man evolved from another branch of Early Man.

 

The data from the Human Genome Project and other genomic research provides strong evidence of human's  relationship to other life. Our DNA is 98% the same as that of a chimpanzee. As noted in an answer to an earlier question, "ancestor genes" of a large number of disease-causing genes in humans are found in the fruit fly.  Genes found in laboratory mice are found in humans. The evidence of the unity of life continues to increase and humans are within that unified realm

 

One line of evidence that suggests all life shares a common ancestor is DNA sequencing and common proteins. I am searching for a list of genes/proteins that humans share with other life forms. Where should I look? I've already searched the Net with little luck. (sjmyers, Anderson, Indiana)

A. The March 23, 2000, issue of Science featured the genomic research regarding the D. melanogaster (fruitfly). Among the findings related to this question follows in outline form:

  • Identified 289 genes that are mutated, altered, amplified or deleted in a diverse set of human diseases and searched for similar genes in D. melanogaster, C. elegans, and S. cerevisiae.
  • 177 (61%) appear to have a homolog in Drosophila.
  • Many of the genes that were missing reflect clear differences in the physiology of the organisms.
  • Mutated hemoglobins present in human not present in the fly.
  • Most human neurological disease genes surveyed were also found in C. elegans and some in the yeast.

Robin, G., et.al., (2000). Comparative genomics of the Eukaryotes. Science 287(5461) 2204-2215. 3/23/00

Information regarding this question is also in the literature regarding the Human Genome Project. Follows are some notes from a presentation of F. Collins:

  • More than 20 human genes are the result of horizontal transfer from bacteria.
  • There are no homologs for these genes in the roundworms, fruit fly, etc.
  • They have breached the boundaries somehow.

Collins, F. National Center for Human Genome Research & National Institutes of Health. Consequences of the Human Genome Project for Medicine & Society. AAAS 2001 Annual Meeting. 2/17/2001, 2/17/01.

Information regarding this question is also in the literature regarding the Human Genome Project. Follows are some notes from a presentation of F. Collins:

  • More than 20 human genes are the result of horizontal transfer from bacteria.
  • There are no homologs for these genes in the roundworms, fruit fly, etc.
  • They have breached the boundaries somehow.

Collins, F. National Center for Human Genome Research & National Institutes of Health. Consequences of the Human Genome Project for Medicine & Society. AAAS 2001 Annual Meeting. 2/17/2001, 2/17/01.

Nuclear copies of mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) have contaminated PCR-based mitochondrial studies of over 64 different animal species. Since the last review of these nuclear mitochondrial pseudogenes (Numts) in animals, Numts have been found in 53 of the species studied. The recent evidence suggests that Numts are not equally abundant in all species, for example they are more common in plants than in animals, and also more numerous in humans than in Drosophila. Methods for avoiding Numts have now been tested, and several recent studies demonstrate the potential utility of Numt DNA sequences in evolutionary studies. As relics of ancient mtDNA, these pseudogenes can be used to infer ancestral states or root mitochondrial phylogenies. Where they are numerous and selectively unconstrained, Numts are ideal for the study of spontaneous mutation in nuclear genomes.

 

The largest family of gene is for the protein receptor in the cell membranes of the olfactory nerve. There are 1000 of them. We have 500 of these active, but have 300 pseudogenes that mice share. Obviously sense of smell is not as important for primates as it is for mice. These genes have become dormant and corrupted and not coded for anymore.

 

“Discussion over evolution and Intelligent Design really has centered on whether pseudogenes, sometimes called ‘junk DNA,’ have a function or not. The suggestion is that an Intelligent Designer would not make junk DNA, so if a pseudogene does have a function, this is claimed to support the idea of an Intelligent Designer,” Dr. Nicholls said. “But there is no evidence that any of the 20,000 pseudogenes are functional. Our research proves this Makorin pseudogene does not have a function. It has continued to mutate over its short life of a few million years, a fact that supports evolution, and eventually will be discarded from the mouse genome.”

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Angela
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Quote Angela Replybullet Posted: 18 August 2006 at 9:13am

Anadalus,

What would you consider hard evidence?

There are thousands of fossils of Homo Erectus, Homo Neaderthalis, Homo Habilis, Austrolipithicus Africanis....each sharing very close ties with each other and yet each one closer and closer to the way we are? 

There is even a fossile of a possible Hybrid child showing both characteristics of Neaderthal and Homo Sapien traits.  Considering that these two groups lived on earth at the same time, that is a distinct possibility.

What says God didn't create us in a slow process?  By basic biology the pure Creationist view does not account for the biological diversity in Humans.  Adam and Eve (Hawa) spawned  us all????  Then why do I have medium skin, Brother Israfil has dark skin and Sister Herjihad have very pale skin???

Why do the Asians have almond eyes and Africans have tight curly hair?

The basic genetic rules are that we have 23 pairs of genes.  23 from Mom, 23 from Dad.  If we all come from Adam and Eve then the diversity in these 23 pairs would not account for the diversity in humans.

I'm just trying to get a view on what you call hard evidence. 

And before Muhammed77 continues about atheist scientists, the basics of genetics and such started with George Mendel, a Monk and man of God. 

A man's religion has no bearing on his intelligence and scientific integrity.  Eistein was Jewish. 

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Patty
 
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Quote Patty Replybullet Posted: 18 August 2006 at 9:30am

We all know about Genesis and the story there of Creation.  But I've always wondered about something.  That is one story.  Isn't it possible that God also created other human beings during a different timeframe?  He never mentioned that Adam and Eve were the ONLY people He created.  In fact, I've thought a lot about the words of Jesus when he said in John 10:15-16, The Father knows me and I know the Father; and I lay down my life for the sheep. And I have other sheep, that are not of this fold; I must bring them also,and they will heed my voice. So there shall be one flock, one shepherd.

I have felt many times that Jesus is referring to persons who were created long before Adam and Eve, and had died before their creation in the Garden of Eden.  There is nothing which contradicts the creation of other human beings.  Also, with the calendars all being different or based on a variety of events, who knows how long ago Adam and Eve were created?

Just some of my rambling thoughts.

Patty

I don't know what the future holds....but I know who holds the future.
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