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fogtrik
 
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Quote fogtrik Replybullet Topic: creation never happened!
    Posted: 11 August 2006 at 3:18pm

 

Around the sun orbits a giant tea pot, we can't see it, so we can't prove or disprove it exists (R. Dawkins, 2006). The same goes for the idea of god in any faith.

What we can prove is evolution by the fossil record, molecular anthropology, mitochonrial DNA decant, chromosome territory preseraation across primates (we are primates!), etc.

Allah never created earth and homo sapiens, both evolved by national processes. If Muhammed really talked to god, as proof, god would have told him, Energy equals Mass times Energy Squared as evidence. This never happened, Mudammed made it up and islam is like no other created faaith based religion.

Show me in the quran where E=MC2?

F

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Quote Angel Replybullet Posted: 13 August 2006 at 8:33pm

first, scriptures are not science books so I doubt that you'll find E=mc2.

While I am for evolution and big bang theory than creation myself....

second, so if we cannot prove or disprove God exist, so really we cannot prove or disprove creation really  

tea pot!? interesting



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lovetabuleh
 
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Quote lovetabuleh Replybullet Posted: 13 August 2006 at 10:35pm
Originally posted by fogtrik

 

Around the sun orbits a giant tea pot, we can't see it, so we can't prove or disprove it exists (R. Dawkins, 2006). The same goes for the idea of god in any faith.

What we can prove is evolution by the fossil record, molecular anthropology, mitochonrial DNA decant, chromosome territory preseraation across primates (we are primates!), etc.

Allah never created earth and homo sapiens, both evolved by national processes. If Muhammed really talked to god, as proof, god would have told him, Energy equals Mass times Energy Squared as evidence. This never happened, Mudammed made it up and islam is like no other created faaith based religion.

Show me in the quran where E=MC2?

F

 

you can't see an atom, so therefore according to you, IT DOESN'T EXIST!! 

so atoms don't exists, therefore you can't say there is protons or electrons cuz they're 100,000 times smaller than an atom so THEY DON'T EXIST according to your idea. 

but wait- you want to know about energy, if god stated it?  hey man, energy DOESN'T EXIST since you can't see it!! so don't ask such propostrous questions!

you don't even know if space exists-  the stars are billions of light years away from us and it takes that much time for light to travel to earth.  your eyes decieve you.  the stars in the sky are not where you think you see them- since it takes light some time to travel, what you see presently is the constelation of those same stars long, long ago.

 

let this be a rule of thumb for you: the organ you use to see with cannot be set as the determining factor to whether something exists or not.  therefore this sense could not be used to determine if God exists or not.

you want to know if god exists?  look deep into your soul, when you connect with your soul, you connect with Allah. it is He who hath blown his soul into each embryo bringing us to life in our mother's womb.

you connect with your soul, you connect with Allah.  Look up 'thikr'.

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Quote peacemaker Replybullet Posted: 14 August 2006 at 2:13am
Originally posted by fogtrik

 

Around the sun orbits a giant tea pot, we can't see it, so we can't prove or disprove it exists (R. Dawkins, 2006). The same goes for the idea of god in any faith.

What we can prove is evolution by the fossil record, molecular anthropology, mitochonrial DNA decant, chromosome territory preseraation across primates (we are primates!), etc.

Allah never created earth and homo sapiens, both evolved by national processes. If Muhammed really talked to god, as proof, god would have told him, Energy equals Mass times Energy Squared as evidence. This never happened, Mudammed made it up and islam is like no other created faaith based religion.

Show me in the quran where E=MC2?

F

Hi fogtrik,

Below is a good link that explains the position of Qur'an on relativity.

http://www.islamicity.com/Science/QuranAndScience/relativity /GeneratedFiles/index.htm

Verily a Day in the sight of your Lord is like a thousand years of your reckoning  --(Surat al-Hajj, 47)

 

THE COMING OF THE UNIVERSE INTO EXISTENCE

The origin of the universe is described in the Qur'an in the following verse:

He created the heavens and the earth from nothing. (Surat al-An'am, 101)

This information given in the Qur'an is in full agreement with the findings of contemporary science. The conclusion that astrophysics has reached today is that the entire universe, together with the dimensions of matter and time, came into existence as a result of a great explosion that occurred in no time. This event, known as "The Big Bang" proved that the universe was created from nothingness as the result of the explosion of a single point. Modern scientific circles are in agreement that the Big Bang is the only rational and provable explanation of the beginning of the universe and of how the universe came into being.

Before the Big Bang, there was no such thing as matter. From a condition of non-existence in which neither matter, nor energy, nor even time existed, and which can only be described metaphysically, matter, energy, and time were all created. This fact, only recently discovered by modern physics, was announced to us in the Qur'an 1,400 years ago.

 

THE EXPANSION OF THE UNIVERSE

In the Qur'an, which was revealed 14 centuries ago at a time when the science of astronomy was still primitive, the expansion of the universe was described like this:

And it is We Who have constructed the heaven with might, and verily, it is We Who are steadily expanding it. (Surat adh-Dhariyat, 47)

The word "heaven", as stated in this verse, is used in various places in the Qur'an with the meaning of space and universe. Here again, the word is used with this meaning. In other words, in the Qur'an it is revealed that the universe "expands". And this is the very conclusion that science has reached today.

Until the dawn of the twentieth century, the only view prevailing in the world of science was that "the universe has a constant nature and it has existed since infinite time". The research, observations, and calculations carried out by means of modern technology, however, have revealed that the universe in fact had a beginning, and that it constantly "expands".

At the beginning of the twentieth century, the Russian physicist Alexander Friedmann and the Belgian cosmologist Georges Lemaitre theoretically calculated that the universe is in constant motion and that it is expanding.

This fact was proved also by observational data in 1929. While observing the sky with a telescope, Edwin Hubble, the American astronomer, discovered that the stars and galaxies were constantly moving away from each other. A universe where everything constantly moves away from everything else implied a constantly expanding universe. The observations carried out in the following years verified that the universe is constantly expanding. This fact was explained in the Qur'an when that was still unknown to anyone. This is because the Qur'an is the word of Allah, the Creator, and the Ruler of the entire universe.

http://www.harunyahya.com/generalknowledge24.php

Finally, you have to also keep in mind that Qur'an is not the book of science, it is book of guidance. With that said, let us keep in mind that it also has desciption  on creation, relativity, embroynic development etc, to name a few, that are also supported by modern science. It was absolutely impossible for a Prophet ( who could not read or write ) 1400 years back to know these advanced concepts that are known to us today with the help of sophisticated astronomical and technological equipments.

Qur'an doesn't depend on science, but an open mind with scientific knowledge may help one understand Qur'an and Islam better, not necessarily though.

Of course, faith comes first. Even in the face of technological backwardness that existed 1400 years back, opposed to our modern times, Prophet Muhammad ( peace be upon him ) and his companions  still believed in everything what was there in Qur'an and Islam, and they were the best community ever raised in the history of mankind.

Peace

 

Then which of the favours of your Lord will ye deny?
Qur'an 55:13
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Cyril
 
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Quote Cyril Replybullet Posted: 14 August 2006 at 2:38am

Peacemaker

Your quote: "Finally, you have to also keep in mind that Qur'an is not the book of science, it is book of guidance. With that said, let us keep in mind that it also has desciption  on creation, relativity, embroynic development etc, to name a few, that are also supported by modern science."

Nice contradiction: the Quran is not a book of science but it is supposed to have a lot of science in it.

Some of the "scientific" facts in the Quran are not supported by modern science but rather by mythological thinking.
For example man created from clay, or the fact that heaven and earth can talk.


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herjihad
 
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Quote herjihad Replybullet Posted: 14 August 2006 at 6:46am
Originally posted by peacemaker

Originally posted by fogtrik

 

Around the sun orbits a giant tea pot, we can't see it, so we can't prove or disprove it exists (R. Dawkins, 2006). The same goes for the idea of god in any faith.

What we can prove is evolution by the fossil record, molecular anthropology, mitochonrial DNA decant, chromosome territory preseraation across primates (we are primates!), etc.

Allah never created earth and homo sapiens, both evolved by national processes. If Muhammed really talked to god, as proof, god would have told him, Energy equals Mass times Energy Squared as evidence. This never happened, Mudammed made it up and islam is like no other created faaith based religion.

Show me in the quran where E=MC2?

F

Hi fogtrik,

Below is a good link that explains the position of Qur'an on relativity.

http://www.islamicity.com/Science/QuranAndScience/relativity /GeneratedFiles/index.htm

Verily a Day in the sight of your Lord is like a thousand years of your reckoning  --(Surat al-Hajj, 47)

 

THE COMING OF THE UNIVERSE INTO EXISTENCE

The origin of the universe is described in the Qur'an in the following verse:

He created the heavens and the earth from nothing. (Surat al-An'am, 101)

This information given in the Qur'an is in full agreement with the findings of contemporary science. The conclusion that astrophysics has reached today is that the entire universe, together with the dimensions of matter and time, came into existence as a result of a great explosion that occurred in no time. This event, known as "The Big Bang" proved that the universe was created from nothingness as the result of the explosion of a single point. Modern scientific circles are in agreement that the Big Bang is the only rational and provable explanation of the beginning of the universe and of how the universe came into being.

Before the Big Bang, there was no such thing as matter. From a condition of non-existence in which neither matter, nor energy, nor even time existed, and which can only be described metaphysically, matter, energy, and time were all created. This fact, only recently discovered by modern physics, was announced to us in the Qur'an 1,400 years ago.

 

THE EXPANSION OF THE UNIVERSE

In the Qur'an, which was revealed 14 centuries ago at a time when the science of astronomy was still primitive, the expansion of the universe was described like this:

And it is We Who have constructed the heaven with might, and verily, it is We Who are steadily expanding it. (Surat adh-Dhariyat, 47)

The word "heaven", as stated in this verse, is used in various places in the Qur'an with the meaning of space and universe. Here again, the word is used with this meaning. In other words, in the Qur'an it is revealed that the universe "expands". And this is the very conclusion that science has reached today.

Until the dawn of the twentieth century, the only view prevailing in the world of science was that "the universe has a constant nature and it has existed since infinite time". The research, observations, and calculations carried out by means of modern technology, however, have revealed that the universe in fact had a beginning, and that it constantly "expands".

At the beginning of the twentieth century, the Russian physicist Alexander Friedmann and the Belgian cosmologist Georges Lemaitre theoretically calculated that the universe is in constant motion and that it is expanding.

This fact was proved also by observational data in 1929. While observing the sky with a telescope, Edwin Hubble, the American astronomer, discovered that the stars and galaxies were constantly moving away from each other. A universe where everything constantly moves away from everything else implied a constantly expanding universe. The observations carried out in the following years verified that the universe is constantly expanding. This fact was explained in the Qur'an when that was still unknown to anyone. This is because the Qur'an is the word of Allah, the Creator, and the Ruler of the entire universe.

http://www.harunyahya.com/generalknowledge24.php

Finally, you have to also keep in mind that Qur'an is not the book of science, it is book of guidance. With that said, let us keep in mind that it also has desciption  on creation, relativity, embroynic development etc, to name a few, that are also supported by modern science. It was absolutely impossible for a Prophet ( who could not read or write ) 1400 years back to know these advanced concepts that are known to us today with the help of sophisticated astronomical and technological equipments.

Qur'an doesn't depend on science, but an open mind with scientific knowledge may help one understand Qur'an and Islam better, not necessarily though.

Of course, faith comes first. Even in the face of technological backwardness that existed 1400 years back, opposed to our modern times, Prophet Muhammad ( peace be upon him ) and his companions  still believed in everything what was there in Qur'an and Islam, and they were the best community ever raised in the history of mankind.

Peace

 

Bismillah,

Brother, in reading your post I see that you think it's worth your time to allow atheists and Islaam bashers to come to this site making anti-Islaamic declarations for the purpose of your providing refutation of their grossly mistaken ideas.

I suggest that you form another posting section specifically for this activity.  Possibly:  Atheists and Anti-Muslims section.

Salaamu Alaykum

Al-Hamdulillah (From a Married Muslimah) La Howla Wa La Quwata Illa BiLLah - There is no Effort or Power except with Allah's Will.
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Quote peacemaker Replybullet Posted: 14 August 2006 at 7:28am

Originally posted by Cyril


Peacemaker

Your quote: "Finally, you have to also keep in mind that Qur'an is not the book of science, it is book of guidance. With that said, let us keep in mind that it also has desciption  on creation, relativity, embroynic development etc, to name a few, that are also supported by modern science."

Nice contradiction: the Quran is not a book of science but it is supposed to have a lot of science in it.

Some of the "scientific" facts in the Quran are not supported by modern science but rather by mythological thinking.
For example man created from clay, or the fact that heaven and earth can talk.


Cyril:

Let me repeat. Qur'an is primarily a book of guidance. It is not contradiction if you see science, mathematics, geography, history, astronomy,language ( unmatched arabic ) etc etc. in this book. Let us stick first to those scientific aspects I pointed out in my post before going to others such as the one you mentioned, " For example man created from clay, or the fact that heaven and earth can talk." And when you do want to discuss any scientifc aspect with respect to what Qur'an says about that, please quote Qur'anic verse(s) and scientific position so it can be discussed.

Whether or not any scientific aspect backed Qur'an at any point in the history, Muslims have been believing in Qur'an and seeking inspiration from this book, taking it in its entirety, without any concern to what science or others may say about it otherwise. 

Peace


 



Edited by peacemaker
Then which of the favours of your Lord will ye deny?
Qur'an 55:13
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Quote peacemaker Replybullet Posted: 14 August 2006 at 7:32am
Originally posted by herjihad

Originally posted by peacemaker

Originally posted by fogtrik

 

Around the sun orbits a giant tea pot, we can't see it, so we can't prove or disprove it exists (R. Dawkins, 2006). The same goes for the idea of god in any faith.

What we can prove is evolution by the fossil record, molecular anthropology, mitochonrial DNA decant, chromosome territory preseraation across primates (we are primates!), etc.

Allah never created earth and homo sapiens, both evolved by national processes. If Muhammed really talked to god, as proof, god would have told him, Energy equals Mass times Energy Squared as evidence. This never happened, Mudammed made it up and islam is like no other created faaith based religion.

Show me in the quran where E=MC2?

F

Hi fogtrik,

Below is a good link that explains the position of Qur'an on relativity.

http://www.islamicity.com/Science/QuranAndScience/relativity /GeneratedFiles/index.htm

Verily a Day in the sight of your Lord is like a thousand years of your reckoning  --(Surat al-Hajj, 47)

 

THE COMING OF THE UNIVERSE INTO EXISTENCE

The origin of the universe is described in the Qur'an in the following verse:

He created the heavens and the earth from nothing. (Surat al-An'am, 101)

This information given in the Qur'an is in full agreement with the findings of contemporary science. The conclusion that astrophysics has reached today is that the entire universe, together with the dimensions of matter and time, came into existence as a result of a great explosion that occurred in no time. This event, known as "The Big Bang" proved that the universe was created from nothingness as the result of the explosion of a single point. Modern scientific circles are in agreement that the Big Bang is the only rational and provable explanation of the beginning of the universe and of how the universe came into being.

Before the Big Bang, there was no such thing as matter. From a condition of non-existence in which neither matter, nor energy, nor even time existed, and which can only be described metaphysically, matter, energy, and time were all created. This fact, only recently discovered by modern physics, was announced to us in the Qur'an 1,400 years ago.

 

THE EXPANSION OF THE UNIVERSE

In the Qur'an, which was revealed 14 centuries ago at a time when the science of astronomy was still primitive, the expansion of the universe was described like this:

And it is We Who have constructed the heaven with might, and verily, it is We Who are steadily expanding it. (Surat adh-Dhariyat, 47)

The word "heaven", as stated in this verse, is used in various places in the Qur'an with the meaning of space and universe. Here again, the word is used with this meaning. In other words, in the Qur'an it is revealed that the universe "expands". And this is the very conclusion that science has reached today.

Until the dawn of the twentieth century, the only view prevailing in the world of science was that "the universe has a constant nature and it has existed since infinite time". The research, observations, and calculations carried out by means of modern technology, however, have revealed that the universe in fact had a beginning, and that it constantly "expands".

At the beginning of the twentieth century, the Russian physicist Alexander Friedmann and the Belgian cosmologist Georges Lemaitre theoretically calculated that the universe is in constant motion and that it is expanding.

This fact was proved also by observational data in 1929. While observing the sky with a telescope, Edwin Hubble, the American astronomer, discovered that the stars and galaxies were constantly moving away from each other. A universe where everything constantly moves away from everything else implied a constantly expanding universe. The observations carried out in the following years verified that the universe is constantly expanding. This fact was explained in the Qur'an when that was still unknown to anyone. This is because the Qur'an is the word of Allah, the Creator, and the Ruler of the entire universe.

http://www.harunyahya.com/generalknowledge24.php

Finally, you have to also keep in mind that Qur'an is not the book of science, it is book of guidance. With that said, let us keep in mind that it also has desciption  on creation, relativity, embroynic development etc, to name a few, that are also supported by modern science. It was absolutely impossible for a Prophet ( who could not read or write ) 1400 years back to know these advanced concepts that are known to us today with the help of sophisticated astronomical and technological equipments.

Qur'an doesn't depend on science, but an open mind with scientific knowledge may help one understand Qur'an and Islam better, not necessarily though.

Of course, faith comes first. Even in the face of technological backwardness that existed 1400 years back, opposed to our modern times, Prophet Muhammad ( peace be upon him ) and his companions  still believed in everything what was there in Qur'an and Islam, and they were the best community ever raised in the history of mankind.

Peace

 

Bismillah,

Brother, in reading your post I see that you think it's worth your time to allow atheists and Islaam bashers to come to this site making anti-Islaamic declarations for the purpose of your providing refutation of their grossly mistaken ideas.

I suggest that you form another posting section specifically for this activity.  Possibly:  Atheists and Anti-Muslims section.

Salaamu Alaykum

Walaikum Salam Sister herjihad,

I hope that IC mod/admin team will look into your concerns.

Jazak Allah Khair.

Peace

Then which of the favours of your Lord will ye deny?
Qur'an 55:13
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