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Message Icon Topic: America, the Disliked, but why so much? Post Reply Post New Topic
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herjihad
 
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Quote herjihad Replybullet Posted: 16 August 2006 at 6:13am

Bismillah,

The evasion of rounds of mutual insults is not a bad thing when no good will come out of it.

Salaamu Alaykum

Al-Hamdulillah (From a Married Muslimah) La Howla Wa La Quwata Illa BiLLah - There is no Effort or Power except with Allah's Will.
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Israfil
 
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Quote Israfil Replybullet Posted: 16 August 2006 at 8:44am
Originally posted by Hayfa

My theory from this, is that the psychological effect of more media coverage on Arab problems such as Lebanon etc the more sympathetic and empathetic Muslims are towards the Arab problem rather than the problems going on in the other world.

I think that is the way humans are.. we are al lvery concentrated on our own issues and problems.  Plus with the fact that there is rascism, I cannot imagine that people are immune from these effects.

Lots of people also don't know what the answers are. Sudan, Somalia, Afganistan, these areas that have faced long-term conflict and turmoil face an uphll battle. 

Hayfa that is an interesting response and I agree that culturally speaking that is thw way humans are. However in essence if we Muslims are concerned about the affairs of other Muslims I don't think we should be concerned about disliking (or hating America) rather, be concerned about our brethren overseas. The whole creed of Islam is that we all come from God and that God is the artisan of "our forms and color" that alone, along with our ethical codes to Islam to dissolve any cultural bias either socially or in media.

Sister Herjihad

I could post some things I've seen on the street as of now but its not really important to some here, maybe except you. If I do I will always get one who will say "It's not the same as the people in Lebanon" so its really pointless. I understand the counter argument here that I live in the safety of my country but again I don't think we are looking at the big picture. I remember reading in the Los Angeles Times yesterday in the California Comments section an author was discussing how America's image deteriorated over time and it wasn't because of Bush.

American's image perhaps went downhill starting with the New Settlers of this world. The Manifest Destiny, Slavery of Africans, the destruction of Native American tribes. The injustice upon the Irish, Chinese, Japanese and others. I have so much on this issue I truly feel I'd like to express, but unfortunately patience and time is something I don't have.

I truly feel that this world is terribly deteriorating and its because we humans cannot fathom solutions which are easily found through our faith.

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Patty
 
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Quote Patty Replybullet Posted: 16 August 2006 at 9:26am
I think you are right, Israfil.  The world is deteriorating terribly, and because we cannot find it in ourselves to compromise, love, learn tolerance, etc., etc., we will NEVER have peace...not in a million years.  However, I don't think this world will be here that long...the sun will fry us all long before that.  I'll bet God wishes he'd never created us.
Patty

I don't know what the future holds....but I know who holds the future.
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ak_m_f
 
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Quote ak_m_f Replybullet Posted: 16 August 2006 at 9:48am
maybe this is why people hate USA in middle-east:

1)The Eisenhower administration's CIA brought down a popular representative government in Iran, in 1953, because Mosaddeq, the prime minister, wanted to nationalise Iran's oil. America installed, nurtured, cradled, and propped the Shah for the next 25 years no matter how dictatorial and oppressive he became. This behavior, of course, led to the bloody Islamic revolution in Iran

2)Saddam Hussein is another CIA creation. Americans call him a 'Hitler' now, but he comes with a "Made in America" label stamped on the back of his neck. He was our man even before he rose to power, and we encouraged him to wage a bloody war against Iran over a few square meters of real-estate. We needed to hit Iran hard, thru Iraq, because Iran had become dangerously anti-American because...uh huh...you begin to see the problem.

3)Saddam thought he had our blessing for everything. We had never stopped him before (not even when he used chemical weapons against his own population), and we had been supplying him with weapons. That is why he attacked Kuwait, the deliverance of which cost American lives.

4)Afghanistan started talking about a holy war against the Soviet imperialists, the CIA thought, "Great! Let's get this started and launch millions of Muslims against our Cold War opponents." So CIA fostered, encouraged, and funded this holy war of the mujahideen. Osama bin Laden was our ally, spending his own money and organizing people on the ground, as well as bringing them from all parts of the Islamic world. WE built the network that is bin Laden's Al Qaeda.

5)When it became necessary to deliver Kuwait from OUR violent protegé Saddam Hussein, American troops were stationed in Saudi Arabia, bin Laden's homeland. But they never left, and this is holy soil. This insult is added to the fact that we had been supporting the royal family there for long even though they run the country in dictatorial fashion and are widely hated. That is what made bin Laden our enemy. We had already built him up into a powerful warlord, and now he had gotten out of control. Sounds like Saddam? Yes it does.

6)When the Islamic party in Algeria won in fair and free elections, we supported the violent crackdown of the military because, it was said, the Islamicists would abolish democracy. So we made sure it was abolished before the Islamicists had a chance to try. It is hard to convey just how bloody the rampages that followed have been. Many of these were carried out by the GIA (thought responsible for the massacres of tens of thousands of civilians), a group led by veterans of the Afghan war and trained by bin Laden's network It is hard to believe that the Islamicists would have been worse. But we will never know, because America hates democratic outcomes. What it likes is tin-pot dictators that are obliged in clientship relationships to the United States. Of course, this is very dangerous. But it keeps happening because what each President keeps thinking about is the next election, not long-term outcomes, and Americans don't read History

7)Finally, we have been supporting Israel since its inception, even though it is a state born of terrorist violence, and even though its abuses have been many. Menachem Begin, one of the first prime-ministers of Israel, used to be a wanted terrorist with a bounty on his head. But who knows this? Do you? Americans don't read history. They are not interested. YOU MUST BRING THIS UP. we mostly condemn the crimes of the Palestinians, the crimes of the weak. We have been Israel's unconditional allies


In the Muslim world, over and over again, we consistently HAVE NOT respected individual liberties but rather supported tin-pot dictators. Therefore, the claim that we are hated because of our "culture" is a complete travesty of the truth. Before the fiasco in Iran, Americans were perceived all over the Muslim world as a benign world power. The hated powers were the colonialists: France and Britain. American culture was not radically different then. Women showed their skin, unmarried people kissed in movies, there was pornography, drinking, etc. If we were really hated for our "culture" this hate should have peaked in the 60's. It is peaking NOW. Now that we have become much more conservative than in that decade.


Patriotism means NOT BEING PROPAGANDISTS FOR THE GOVERNMENT. Patriotism, for you, and for me, and for all of us, means not allowing the truth to be the first casualty of war.

Please, I beg you, do your duty. Now more than ever.


Edited by ak_m_f
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Angela
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Quote Angela Replybullet Posted: 16 August 2006 at 10:38am

Originally posted by ak_m_f

Patriotism means NOT BEING PROPAGANDISTS FOR THE GOVERNMENT. Patriotism, for you, and for me, and for all of us, means not allowing the truth to be the first casualty of war.

Never so true a statement. 

Once upon a time the US stayed out of Foreign Affairs.  The Monroe Doctrine was very simple, you stay out of our Affairs and we'll stay out of yours. 

Over the years, this deteriorated into further and further excuses to interfer in the Western Hemisphere and was finally thrown out all together with World War I.

Globalization has caused a number of problems.  Isolationism is no longer viable but neither is the constant interference.

I love the United States, but she needs to learn to mind her own business.  Human suffering will continue no matter what we do.  But at the very least we can not cause any new problems.

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Israfil
 
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Quote Israfil Replybullet Posted: 16 August 2006 at 12:35pm

Patty such a sad statement! there is hope for humanity we should always maintain a state of hope.

Ak

What you said I cannot fully argue against because yes I have stated that the United States' imagine has deteriorated over time, and yes, perhaps the contradictions and lies has caught up to us. Frankly I'm at a point as an American to allow the rest of the world barbarically destroy itself and take care of the domestic terrorism at home.

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Duende
 
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Quote Duende Replybullet Posted: 17 August 2006 at 4:04am
Duende you laid out a few paragraphs on why you may dislike
America, but let me ask you personally do you have a problem with
America? Have you been to America? What was your experience? If
you live in America has injustice been done to you?

Hola Israfil, personally, injustice bothers me greatly, whether it is
perpetrated against me or anybody close to me. I do not have to
suffer it personally in order for it to bother me.

Having said that, I lived in San Francisco for two years and absolutely
loved it. I loved the city, the climate, the Californucopia atmosphere.
But as time went by, I found it increasingly difficult to find someone I
could have a real conversation with. People tend to shy away from
the deeper darker subjects, preferring some kind of Disney-esque
gloss. American society turns its public figures into characters, they
have to fit into some unwritten screenplay, otherwise they are thrown
to the bottom of the pile. I disliked the realisation that in the end, for
American society, what counts is THE DOLLAR. When the war in Iraq
was just a year old, in Times Square a big display was set up showing
how many dollars it was costing. Not how many lives. How many
dollars.

That says it all.

As an artist, I couldn’t live in a society which values everything
according to the dollar. Later, I became more politically aware and
began to see the gross injustices America is either directly
responsible for, or supports seamlessly .

And as for the media coverage of Darfur/Rwanda/Ethiopia/Congo
etc. I think you have a very valid point. Africa has been thoroughly
ignored by the West, except for what it can offer us in terms of
mineral deposits. The West sees Africa as some huge treasure to be
mined: oil, diamonds, gold, copper, you name it. Sometimes I feel
the West is just waiting for Africa to die so they can move in and
start digging without the tedious paper work.

The Black African is not viewed with the same respect as any White,
non-African. I’m beginning to wonder if this is some left-over from
the slaving days. Today, the stigma of being Black is still linked with
this image of a poor, illiterate worker. I think Black Africans outside
Africa are still struggling against the psychological remains of the
slave days, both in themselves, and in others.

White Westerners can look at images of crushed Palestinians and
Lebanese and feel disgust. But we see images of maimed and broken
Black Africans, and we don’t feel as related to them. This is mostly to
do with how Black Africans are portrayed in the media and film/
culture. It is also to do with the extreme sense of futility we feel
when we see how utterly corrupt and inneffective Black African
leaders are.
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Patty
 
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Quote Patty Replybullet Posted: 17 August 2006 at 5:44am

"White Westerners can look at images of crushed Palestinians and
Lebanese and feel disgust. But we see images of maimed and broken
Black Africans, and we don’t feel as related to them. This is mostly to
do with how Black Africans are portrayed in the media and film/
culture. It is also to do with the extreme sense of futility we feel
when we see how utterly corrupt and inneffective Black African
leaders are."

I respect your opinion, Duende, but this is not the opinions of most Americans.  I have lived all over the country, from one coast to the other, and the great majority of Americans are deeply distressed by the suffering of Black Africans.  Btw, my husband is also an artist, and we are not concerned with material things.  We live a very simple life on the coast of Maine, in the woods in a cottage.  Most of our friends live the same.  There are the very poor, poor, middle class, upper middle class, and wealthy in this country.  The majority are certainly not wealthy! 

My husband and I help support many humanitarian causes the best we can.....as do many of our friends who have no more financial resources than we have.  You should not be so quick to paint an entire country with one wide brush.  Millions of Americans are greatly saddened by what is happening to the suffering in Africa, India, Haiti, and many other countries.  We can't obviously save them all, but we do try.  I am amazed at how so many who are not Americans, or do not really know many Americans, portray us as something we most definitely are not.  We care very deeply for others around the world. We are not unsympathetic.  I feel most Americans know we are very blessed to have what we do have, and the monies donated by individual Americans during times of great hardship and/or catastrophes in various areas of the world, show this is so. 

Here is one article regarding American aid to Africa.  There are many others, but then if I post them, I'm not being humble...so damned if we do...damned if we don't.

  http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06 /13/AR2005061300126.html


 

Patty

I don't know what the future holds....but I know who holds the future.
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