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 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : Politics : World Politics
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s666
 
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Quote s666 Replybullet Posted: 31 July 2006 at 6:25am
Originally posted by Jockey

dont be so generous brother.  dont underestimate israel.  their 'not again...' philosophy is very dangerous[/QUOTE]

You know what our phiosophy is? La Ilaha illa Llah Muhammadun Rasul Llah. Match that.[/QUOTE]

brother thats useful in the hereafter not here in this world.
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peacemaker
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Quote peacemaker Replybullet Posted: 31 July 2006 at 10:35am
Originally posted by Ginghis

Excellent, Excellent!

Jocky, Translate the phrase please.

"La Ilaha illa Llah Muhammadur Rasul ullah"

Translation is "There is no God, but Allah and Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah."

Peace

Then which of the favours of your Lord will ye deny?
Qur'an 55:13
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Ginghis
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Quote Ginghis Replybullet Posted: 01 August 2006 at 5:54am

Well, this has been quite an adventure. I posed the same question in several places. This forum is the only place that worked at finding a root cause although we were unsuccessful at agreeing on any one. The very best I can do is say that history itself is most of the root cause. Both combatants and their supporters are well versed in history. If I may assume you guys would fall into the catagory of "Everyday People" and not someone who has to sort out these issues to the satisfaction of each side, the use of history to explain actions and attitudes is dominant. The same is true on the Isreali forum I visited. Although there was far less moderation in that discussion. Extremes were the norm both aggressive and passive. I attempted to compile my impressions each day and explain to my co-workers and wife what I was hearing. One of my co-workers has glassed over and just sits there respectfully and listens until I go away. Another, a true pacfist, just shakes his head and has concluded "they are never going to stop". Last night my wife put her hands in my face and said I don't want to hear any more, let them kill each other and maybe "I" can have some peace". My own attitude toward finding a root cause that would help permantly solve the issue has resulted in a poem. It favors no one except myself.

Loose the Dogs of War

Take off the muzzle
its no puzzle
the walls have grown too high.

Engage the battle
enough of prattle
let the bullets fly

Impose no limits
we will not kibitz
peacenicks turn your back

Line in the sand
sides take your stand
now burn the cities black

Best man win
it is no sin
conquest is all thats left

Enslave defeated
mistake repeated
will only bring more death
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Quote Jockey Replybullet Posted: 01 August 2006 at 6:46am
s666 wrote:
brother thats useful in the hereafter not here in this world

For your information s666, since you seem to very little about islam, the phrase that peacemaker translated, summerises the idiology that drove the Muslims to build and Run the greatest state in the history of the universe. and it was the greatest not only militarily or because of the vast territory it controlled but it was greatest in every walk of life. And you know what? this state lived for more than 1300 years and was the Supernation of the world for more than 12 centuries. Not the Romans, Not the greeks, not Persians, not Great Britain,Not the Tsars, Not the Soviets and not any other superstate has even come close to that record. Oh, and not even America will.
This greatest state brother was here in this world and not in the hereafter. And, one more thing, The ideology still exists as strongly as ever in the hearts of the Muslims, only waiting to be brought into action once again, and very soon InshaAllah.
Its Coming Soon...
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Quote Ginghis Replybullet Posted: 01 August 2006 at 8:49am

Sigh!

Rush Limbagh on root cause (7/29/06)

"As long as we are going to pussyfoot and patty-cake around, we're not going to get anywhere, we're not going to make any real progress.

We may delay the inevitable, we may get ceasefire after ceasefire after ceasefire, but we're not going to deal with the root cause of the problem. And as such, your kids and grandkids are going to be saddled with that at some point when they assume responsibility for the fate and future of the country."

Liberal Blogger response to Rush (Hullabaloo)

"So, the pictures of the dead are all phony, staged propaganda but the civilians need to be killed anyway in order to get to the root causes of the problem --- which I understand to be too many living arabs. If we don't kill them now, our kids and grandkids will have to kill their kids and grandkids later.

This blatant genocidal bloodlust has become de rigeur on the right now. It's on talk radio, TV and in the columns of respectable newspapers. They don't even pretend to be civilized anymore. Maybe it's just the SOS, but I've got a sick feeling in the pit of my stomach. I don't ever remember this kind of stuff being openly bandied about like it's normal. And those who did, like Curtis LeMay, didn't have audiences of 25 million listeners to spew their bilge to.

But hey,what do we expect? Once you explode the taboo against torture, can genocide be far behind?"

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Quote Ginghis Replybullet Posted: 01 August 2006 at 9:13am

Political Science professor

"You ask a very good and thoughtful question. It takes two to tangle and tango. If you want to go to root causes, maybe it goes all the way back to Joseph, who couldn't get along with his brothers and fled to Egypt. He later reconciled and I think his relatives moved there where they flourished and multiplied. Then they got Moses to lead them to the promised land, and the rest is history.

Another root cause is the creation of the state of Israel in 1948 and of course the subsequent conflicts that have occurred since then.

You might want to read up on the history of the Middle East or the Arab-Israeli conflict. There are a ton of books.

If I were teaching a course about the Arab-Israeli conflict, I would probably go all the way back to father Abraham and his adulterous affair with Haggar and their son Ishmael, who was a thorn in the side of Israel, the "legitimate" heir. You see, it's all a family feud that we need to stay out of.......

I better stop here. I'm getting in over my head."

 

Jewish Wife

"Just an FYI. The Arab league wants nothing to do with Hamas and Hezbolah since they are Shiites (however that is spelled). It's 1,000 years and they are waiting to worship a person, which is supposedly against their faith to worship anyone. Also Hezbolah are Iranians who are not Arabs, but Persians. They took over Lebanon by force with help from the Syrians who are evil, but won't fight because they might get hurt. Hamas is comprised of Egyptian fanatics. Also another FYI - read Mark Twain and he will tell of the empty land i.e. "Palestine".

Me. "

 

Her Husband

"And from me.

Good summary of the Balfour and previous. Nice history lesson.

However, you might know that maybe that was part of a Godly plan to return the Jews to their homeland. 2,000 years of Diaspora seems like enough.

The part about the 'it being clearly understood that
nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of
existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine'

The Arabs living in Israel have more rights than any of their neighbors. Yes there is some discrimination, but they have the right to petition all the way to the Supreme Court of Israel and the do win there. The Arabs have mosques and are entitled to worship as they please. As are the Christians and the B'Hai (spelling may be off). I believe that portion is in place as referenced above.

I am convinced that either Islam will eradicate it's superiority complex or whither on the vine of history.

With denigration of other religions or cultures, then the only philosophy that would make sense to the Moslems would be to conquer all or perish. The alternate "reformation" of islam would be to see all religions as equal to be practiced in their midst. If Islam is truley superior, the it will stand on it's on in the arena of ideas with other beliefs.

Should they choose the former, the the decline will be bloddy and centuries in duration, but it will fall to a minority religion and culture. Should they chose the latter, then perhaps the world will be a better and happier place where we can start to think of a world at piece with itself on religious terms.

There is that hope."



Edited by Ginghis
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Andalus
 
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Quote Andalus Replybullet Posted: 01 August 2006 at 9:25am
Originally posted by s666

Originally posted by kashmiri

if israil goes too back to say that palestine is our state....then i say that spain belongs to muslims!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



may not be brother, andalusia is a conquered territory.  muslims do not belong there. they are the invaders.

 

Andaluse was invaded by foriegn elements prior to Muslims entering it. They entered at the invitation of a Christian. Andalus was Muslim for 700 years. The Catholic church, a foriegn power, was behind the removal of the Muslims, and also force converted everyone and threw out those who would not convert.


israel and palestine is quite a difficult question to answer.  what about starting from the old testament?

Lets start from there.

Israel was the northern kingdom. It is no longer around. It was destroyed by Assyrians. The Northern tribe was wiped out and has never been heard of again. This is proof that Gd's promises are "conditional". Unlike what the 20th century Zionists have preached to everyone in their propoganda. It is ok to find pork being sold on the Shabbat  in the market place, and to be a complete "athiest", but Gd did make a promise so it is "all good", according to the Zionists.

Israel is gone, and the modern state with the name has nothing in common.

If one is truly a Torah observant Jew, then they are still in the diaspora, and still must wait for a sign from Gd to return.

 

A feeling of discouragement when you slip up is a sure sign that you put your faith in deeds. -Ibn 'Ata'llah
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Quote Andalus Replybullet Posted: 01 August 2006 at 9:31am

Originally posted by s666

Originally posted by Jockey



I can bet my life on it: Israel will disappear within no time. Hizbullah is showing us today How vulnerable this defacto state is.



dont be so generous brother.  dont underestimate israel.  their 'not again...' philosophy is very dangerous.

The most dangerous person is the one who has nothing else to lose.

Israel exists due to one fact alone: The US dumps money and weapons into the "colony". In my opinion, the US should go back to its original teachings and intentions of the founding fathers, and practice non interference in the affairs of others, and hault all of the money sent to the middle east countries, and let all of the corrupt Arab regimes, and Israel, stand on their own. If they cannot, then they should not be in power.

A feeling of discouragement when you slip up is a sure sign that you put your faith in deeds. -Ibn 'Ata'llah
http://www.sunnipath.com
http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/
http://www.pt-go.com/
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