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Patty
 
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Quote Patty Replybullet Posted: 16 July 2006 at 12:40pm

Originally posted by Megatron

Informants are the lowest form of life.  They are like prison snitches.  I live in Canada and if I ever see that guy, I'll promise to spit on him.  What a sellout. 

OH, REALLY?  So you don't like "prison snitches" huh? Well, my Dad was a federal corrections officer his whole adult life...we grew up on the prison reservation, and I went to work in the prison as a stenographer.  I can tell you this much, there have been MANY "prison snitches" who have saved the life of many a young male Muslim behind those walls.  If these so-called prison snitches didn't warn the officers of an impending "hit" on certain Muslim inmates, many would be dead! 

Megatron, my friend, you need to know all the facts in some cases.

Much peace to you!



Edited by Patty
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I don't know what the future holds....but I know who holds the future.
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herjihad
 
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Quote herjihad Replybullet Posted: 16 July 2006 at 3:55pm
Originally posted by Megatron

Why have they been held without any formal charges being laid against them?  Two of them have been released under house arrest again with no formal charges.  Just speculation in the media and have not had access to lawyers 

In Canada because of terrorism laws, a person can be held for 6 months without any charges being laid against them, without access to lawyers or family!! Does that sound right to you? 

Can't I live in a country where my freedoms aren't trampled on and also be protected by subway bombings?  This witchhunting of people in the Muslim community will just isolate the Muslim community and create more radical ideas.   

Besides, terrorism has a root cause.  Maybe people need to question Canada's military operations in Afghanistan.  I'm not saying bombing a subway is a way to protest this operation, but lets look at the problem as a whole.

Also, talk is talk.  I've heard people say awful things but not mean them.  I heard some Native guy just today saying he hated "white men" and he's going to "kill them all".  Maybe he should be arrested on terrorism charges.  This policy is just rubbish.  I used to live in a small town and heard skin heads say things which can easily be contrued as terrorist ideas and actions.  None of them were ever questioned by CSIS.  They were allowed to walk free.   

These policies are just an attempt for the Conservative government to cozy up to Bush and his failures.  Conservative governments have always been the U.S.'s lapdog. 

Just like that informant mentioned in  the article.  Nothing but a lapdog sellout.

Bismillah,

I appreciate that you brought out some points others have overlooked.  I bolded those ideas.

The first thing I thought of when I read this was:  Did he lead them into bad actions himself?  Did he encourage or incite bad behavior instead of caution the brothers to follow the right guidance in our Holy Quraan, which is to defend ourselves and not to seek out aggression?  Were these brothers misled by someone they trusted into dark spaces of their minds and hearts?

We could use more information, and here's a thought:  how about the other brothers' side of the story?

Peace

Al-Hamdulillah (From a Married Muslimah) La Howla Wa La Quwata Illa BiLLah - There is no Effort or Power except with Allah's Will.
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peacemaker
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Quote peacemaker Replybullet Posted: 16 July 2006 at 4:23pm

Assalamu Alaikum,

As a Muslim, it is our duty to report something that may cause damage to society to such an extent. In fact, it is Qur’an’s instruction that Muslims are instructed to "enjoin the good, and forbid the evil."

At the same time, those arrested should be presumed innocent until proven guilty by court of law.

The sad part in this scenario is not Shaikh who reported this. The sad part is the stand of the media that passed the judgement right away on those charged. The sad part was the stand of the media when entire Muslim community was made to feel that it was guilty by association. But, that has now become a global pattern.

That sort of generalization doesn’t do any good. It only causes negative effects.

Only our sincere return to Qur’an and Sunnah can bring us back the lost glory. Only that sincere realization to lead the humanity from darkness to light, peace and prosperity can earn rewards from Allah ( SWT ). True that it would take time. Changes don’t happen right away. They take time. Perhaps Ummah is already going through that gradual transformation. If not, that change should start NOW.

Peace

Then which of the favours of your Lord will ye deny?
Qur'an 55:13
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lovetabuleh
 
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Quote lovetabuleh Replybullet Posted: 18 July 2006 at 7:24pm

Exerpt from the article:

"Defence lawyers for the 17 accused say the government's case has many flaws and questions are already being raised about the role of informers. 

'It's going to depend on the disclosure and what role the operative played,' defence lawyer and legal activist Paul Copeland told the Toronto Star. "

This short little excerpt taken from the end of the article tells a whole different story about this "devout muslim". 

 

I'd back megatron and candid's arguments

 

nuf said. 

 

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Megatron
 
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Quote Megatron Replybullet Posted: 19 July 2006 at 12:25am
Despite what everyone says, in your heart of hearts, you know that guy is a traitor to Muslims everywhere.  I still stand by my statement that if I were to meet him, I'd spit at him, maybe in the face if I could. 

Maybe you guys appreciate being spied on but I don't.  Maybe it's me but I like to live amongst a community of Muslims that is on my side and not the governments.  The same government that sides with Israel in this crisis in the Middle East.  The same government that is engaging in a oppressive campaign in Afghanistan.  I dunno, but that's just me.
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Quote MOCKBA Replybullet Posted: 19 July 2006 at 1:28am

Bismillah

Assalaamu'alaikum Megatron.

Nobody appreciates being spied on, everyone however should be aware of The Creator who is watchful of all our deeds and intentions. Every act is judged according to person's intention. If the person described above was seeking the pleasure of Allah after consulting the Quran and the Sunnah he will receive His reward.

We are prohibited from spying on fellow Muslims when it concerns their personal affairs, however we are instructed to correct them if their wrongdoing is threatening the well-being of the community and especially innocent people. For all you know, people he saved will grow to grasp the true meaning of Islam though his action and struggle to establish obedience to The Most High. 

Narrated Anas:

Allah's Apostle said, "Help your brother, whether he is an oppressor or he is an oppressed one. People asked, "O Allah's Apostle! It is all right to help him if he is oppressed, but how should we help him if he is an oppressor?" The Prophet said, "By preventing him from oppressing others." (Sahih Bukhari, V.3, Book 43, No. 624) 

 

Those who have uncontrolled urge to fight and explode things should choose fair circumstanes with appropriate ways and places... and there are plenty in today's world. 

Having wrote that, please remain an exemplary Muslim and dont spit at anyone... whatever circumstances.  May Allah bless us all.



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lovetabuleh
 
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Quote lovetabuleh Replybullet Posted: 19 July 2006 at 8:06am

from the message in that last bit of the article i'd be skepticle whether or not in reality those muslims were 'opressors'.

but even if they were, don't you know mockba the hadith: 

" Ibn 'Umar reported that the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, "A Muslim is the brother of another Muslim. He should not wrong him nor surrender him to his enemy. Allah will take care of the needs of anyone who takes care of the needs of his brother. On the Day of Rising Allah will dispel the anxiety of anyone who dispels the anxiety of another Muslim. On the Day of Rising Allah will veil anyone who veils another Muslim." [Agreed upon] (both bukhari and muslim)

I notice a lot of muslims are very gulable. what in one picture seems like a good deed is a back-stabber in incognito.

I was just watching the news getting updated on any recent attacks on lebanon by israeli malittia and at the bottom of the screan read more news: Hizbollah found 15 informants (or spies) sending information from lebanon to israel.

 

ALLAHU AKBAR ON ALL INFORMANTS!!

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MOCKBA
 
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Quote MOCKBA Replybullet Posted: 19 July 2006 at 10:18am

Bismillah

Assalamu'alaikum Amalhayati,

Thank you for sharing the hadith. Without going into conveniently interpreting it, I would invite you to look at the context of the circumstances. If they were oppressors there is no way of covering them but bringing them to justice.

When a pious Muslim of Islamic University known for his piety by he community he lives in is surrendered by the predominantly Muslim Malaysian government to the US on unsubstantial grounds of being suspected of terrorism by the latter, it can be considered as not appropriate and the above hadith may apply.

When a couple of misguided youth plan to inflict pain or cause death to innocent people in a country with a multicultural community it is our duty as Muslims to stop them from doing so even if it may take us to call the authorities. It is no backstabbing. In fact, in the case described, those who were planning the attack in Canada were intending to commit even worse crime towards their own brother Muslims around the world than backstabbing.

Spying and serving as informant for the enemy in the context of war is obviously a treason and is a different subject altogether. Just like spying on your fellow brother in his personal affairs and later spreading the gossip about his shortcomings that would otherwise have been hidden is haraam. Hence Allah's promise to veil anyone who veils another Muslim... and we all have our own things to worry about.

I, too, noticed that many Muslims display Quranic ayats and ahadeeth without taking additional time to study them in a holistic approach instead of snatching them out of their proper context and meaning.

And Allah knows best.

MOCKBA
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