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 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : General : Science & Technology
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ZamanH
 
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Quote ZamanH Replybullet Posted: 24 April 2005 at 12:49am

It is interesting that the cause of the downfall of muslims or should it be islam, is still unknown, perhaps if one goes to the point where it started to change and see from there...

Atleast, in case of India, Muslims fell because the rulers were weak and they trusted the WEstern traders, too much. The rulers also were exceedingly indulgent in wine and women. Muslims empire was created by daring and smart Muslim soldiers, whereas, Western empire was created by unscrupulous traders by intrigue, deception and betrayal. One good example is how Lesseps cheated the Emir of Egypt into handing over the control of Suez canal to the Westerners.

In case of the Ottomons, rulers have became overindulgent in wine and women and ignored their subjects and the WEstern threat.

Although, Muslims were lagging behind the West in the field of science and technology, they couldn't have fallen just because of that. If the rulers had been strong they could have been able to catch up with the West. Japan is a good example of that. It became as prosperous and technologically advanced as the WEst and thus escaped colonization.

Zaman.

 

An enemy of an enemy is a fickle friend.
There will be more women in hell than men.
..for persecution is worse than the slaughter of the enemy..(Quran 2:191)
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Quote ZamanH Replybullet Posted: 24 April 2005 at 12:59am
Originally posted by Angel

Originally posted by ummziba

Angel, you have made some very good points. 

I think, though, that it might help to think of the west as not so much a place as a way of life (secularism, materialism, and so forth).

No, I don't think that would work, for one there are many way of lifes.

If you look at the works of  writers like Voltaire, Huxley, Roussaeu etc. who were the chief proponents of the Western Ciivilization as we know it, they were all secular and materiliastic and espoused a utilitarian view. Also, although the West didn't succumb to the Communists, Communists did affect the Western way of thinking considerably.

An enemy of an enemy is a fickle friend.
There will be more women in hell than men.
..for persecution is worse than the slaughter of the enemy..(Quran 2:191)
Heaven lies under mother's feet
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ummziba
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Quote ummziba Replybullet Posted: 24 April 2005 at 6:13am

Thanks, Angel, for understanding my long winded explaination!

And yes, Zaman, poor leadership was a major factor in the decline of Islamic civilization.  Unfortunately, we still suffer from that affliction!

So, besides educating ourselves about our religion and doing our best to follow it as it should be followed, how do we get rid of the bad leadership and install good leadership?  How do we encourage good leadership among ourselves and among our children?  Where do we even start?

Peace, ummziba.

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Quote ummziba Replybullet Posted: 24 April 2005 at 9:51am

Here is a very good article that addresses what we have been discussing in this thread!

The broken link between Quran and its followers
BY ABID ISHAQ

22 April 2005


Alif Lam Ra. A book We revealed to you in order that you might take mankind from the depths of darkness to light by the will of their Lord and the path of Him, the exalted in power, worthy of all praise.” (Quran, Ibrahim: 1)

“And this Quran leads to the path that is most right.”

(Quran, Israa: 9)

READING these words of the Quran and looking at the political, economic and moral plight of the Muslims in the world today, a non-believing sceptic is left asking: Are these words really true? Where does one see the reality of these verses among those people who claim to believe in and apply the Quran? Can one see the Muslims living in light or could one argue that they are in darkness?

Dear readers, obviously these words of the Quran are true. They are from the Originator and there can be no doubt about them. Furthermore, when one studies the history of the Quran and the impact it has had in the past on those who believed in it, one will find these words to be true.

It is saddening that Muslims possess this divine book of guidance yet for many of them, their lives do not reflect the blessings and guidance of its teachings. There is obviously a broken link somewhere. In an effort to understand this huge disparity that exists between the noble lifestyle the Quran  projects and the plight of Muslims today, I am reminded of the words of the great scholar, Imam Shafai.

In his quest to follow the path of the Quran, the Imam faced similar obstacles. Seeking a solution, he talked to his teacher and later wrote: “I complained to my teacher about the weakness of my memory so he ordered me to abandon disobedience and informed me that the knowledge is light and that the light of Allah is not given to the disobedient.”

Dear readers, how true are these words of the teacher! That broken link which has Muslims struggling spiritually can be attributed to the disobedience to the Creator. On many an occasion, we take sins lightly and persist in lifestyles that we know are far from Islamic. We come across many who are just living for the moment and are not even aware of the broken link. Even though the same Quran which was revealed to the noble Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) is amongst us today, we are unable to capitalise on its greatness due to our sins. To highlight the effects of disobedience to Allah, The Almighty, I quote eight points from Ibn al-Qayyim’s Al-Jawab al-Kafi:

i.    The Prevention of Knowledge: Knowledge is a light which Allah throws into the heart and disobedience extinguishes this light.

ii.    The Prevention of Sustenance: Just as Taqwa brings about sustenance, the abandonment of Taqwa causes poverty. There is nothing which can bring about sustenance like the abandonment of disobedience

iii.   The prevention of obedience (to Allah): If there was no other punishment for sin other than that it prevents one from obedience to Allah then this would be sufficient.

iv.      Disobedience weakens the heart and the body. Disobedience does not stop weakening the heart until it’s completely dead.

v.      Disobedience reduces the life span and destroys any blessings. Just as righteousness increases the lifespan, sinning reduces it.

vi.      Disobedience sows its own seeds and gives birth to itself until separating from it and coming out of it becomes difficult for the servant.

vii.  Sins weaken the hearts will and resolve so that the desire for disobedience becomes strong and the desire to repent becomes weak bit by bit until the desire to repent is removed from the heart completely.

viii.  Every type of disobedience is a legacy of a nation from among the nations which Allah destroyed. Sodomy is a legacy of the People of Lot. Taking more than one’s due right and giving what is less is a legacy of the People of Shuaib. Seeking greatness in the land and causing corruption is a legacy of the People of Pharaoh and pride/arrogance and tyranny is a legacy of the People of Hud. So the disobedient one is wearing the gown of some of these nations who were the enemies of Allah.

Despite having the guidance of the Quran and the noble teachings of the holy Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) in their midst, the Muslims cannot possibly be role models and take mankind from the depths of darkness to light without first reforming themselves.

 

  I particularly like that last paragraph!

Peace, ummziba.



Edited by ummziba
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Quote ZamanH Replybullet Posted: 24 April 2005 at 11:05am

So, besides educating ourselves about our religion and doing our best to follow it as it should be followed, how do we get rid of the bad leadership and install good leadership?  How do we encourage good leadership among ourselves and among our children?  Where do we even start?

We should first get rid of our fear of death and love of this world.

 

An enemy of an enemy is a fickle friend.
There will be more women in hell than men.
..for persecution is worse than the slaughter of the enemy..(Quran 2:191)
Heaven lies under mother's feet
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Quote ZamanH Replybullet Posted: 24 April 2005 at 11:07am

Regarding discussion between ukhti ummziba and Angel, I know a good book by Mariam Jamilah titled "Islam versus the West". I am not able to get a link for that book on the internet, though.

An enemy of an enemy is a fickle friend.
There will be more women in hell than men.
..for persecution is worse than the slaughter of the enemy..(Quran 2:191)
Heaven lies under mother's feet
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Quote Alwardah Replybullet Posted: 28 April 2005 at 5:49am

As Salamu Alaikum  

 

Masha Allah good discussion here

 

Most impressed by both these quotes

Originally posted by ZamanH

So, besides educating ourselves about our religion and doing our best to follow it as it should be followed, how do we get rid of the bad leadership and install good leadership?  How do we encourage good leadership among ourselves and among our children?  Where do we even start?

We should first get rid of our fear of death and love of this world.

 

The Prophet (Sallallahu 'Alayhi wa Sallam) did warn us about it.

 

During a discussion with his Companions about the weakness of his Ummah one of the companions, (Radhi Allahu Anhum), asked: O Messenger of Allah! Will that relate to being few in numbers? The Prophet said: No, but your huge number will be of little effectiveness, and (Allah) will cast Al-Wahan in your hearts. They said: O Messenger of Allah, what does Al-Wahan mean? He said, Your hearts are strongly attached to life luxuries and you feel strong aversion to death. (Reported by Ahmad and Abu-Dawud)

 

 

It is very sad Muslims are controlling most of the worlds natural resources but they are puppets to the Kufr.

 

May Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'ala guide the Ummah of Muhammad (Sallallahu 'Alayhi wa Sallam) to the True Deen. Ameen!

 

“Verily your Lord is quick in punishment; yet He is indeed Oft-Forgiving Most Merciful (Surah Al-An’am 6:165)
"Indeed, we belong to Allah and to Him is our return" (Surah Baqarah 2: 155)
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Quote ZamanH Replybullet Posted: 29 April 2005 at 2:15pm

As Salaam Alaikum Alwardah,

That is a very inspiring hadith and has been posted in this site, more than once.

An enemy of an enemy is a fickle friend.
There will be more women in hell than men.
..for persecution is worse than the slaughter of the enemy..(Quran 2:191)
Heaven lies under mother's feet
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