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Islam for non-Muslims
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B.H.
 
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Quote B.H. Replybullet Posted: 14 July 2006 at 7:49pm

Can God create a stone so heavy that he himself cannot lift it?

 

This is an old critique of the omnipotence doctrine isn't it?  If Allah can't create a rock that is too heavy for him to lift, then he isn't omnipotent, and if he can create a rock that is too heavy to lift he isn't omnipotent either.

This is a logical objection from our standpoint and frame of mind.

I think I have an answer to this, but do not know how to put what I am thinking into words.



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B.H.
 
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Quote B.H. Replybullet Posted: 14 July 2006 at 7:57pm

Here we go.

Let's take an example from the animal kingdom.  Certain animals like dogs are able to see only black and shades of grey---they are in effect, colorblind.  Some creatures can only see ultraviolet and snakes fall into this category.  Humans as a general rule can see the full visible spectrum of colors.

Each of the creatures above were designed to see a certain type of light, and while  the type of light each different animal sees serves its intended purpose, the animal is still inherently limited as to what it can see as far as all the different types of light are concerned.

God created logic and declared that man would be governed by the rules of logic, though man may not necessarily  have been made aware of all of the laws  of logic by Allah just as  Allah declared that man would see color though not all the different kinds of light and color that exists.  There are laws of logic that Allah knows that allow him to create a rock he cannot lift but at the same time he can lift, without there being any contradiction and thus maintaining his omnipotence.  Just as a man would be foolish to declare there is no such thing as ultraviolet light because he can't see it with his own two eyes, he is foolish to declare that Allah is caught in a contradiction over a heavy rock because he as a man does not have knowledge of a law of logic that could explain the contradiction away.  It's not that a logical solution doesn't exist, it is just man was created to operate within a certain plane of logic and does not know or understand other laws of logic that do, in fact, exist outside that plane that explain the contradiction away.



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fatima
 
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Quote fatima Replybullet Posted: 15 July 2006 at 3:16pm

Bismillah irrahman irrahim

Assalamu alaikum

MashaAllah B.H. very nicely put. May Allah swt grant you the knowledge of His deen and ability to follow it and bless you with His pleasure, ameen

wassalam

Say: (O Muhammad) If you love Allah, then follow me, Allah will love you and forgive you your faults, and Allah is Forgiving, MercifuL
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B.H.
 
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Quote B.H. Replybullet Posted: 15 July 2006 at 10:55pm
Originally posted by winjoy

 

Angels and jinns prostrated to Adam, except Iblis, who was a jinn, who disobeyed Allah by not prostrating to Adam.

 

that means Allah made a jinn who was not willing to obey Allah..this is very tricky..they said Allah is powerful and knows everything.

 

Allah knew that Satan (Iblis) would disobey and chose to create him anyway.

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Quote Lamplighter Replybullet Posted: 19 July 2006 at 11:48pm
Dear BH,

Allah knew that Satan (Iblis) would disobey and chose to create him anyway.

But why?

Angels and jinns prostrated to Adam, except Iblis, who was a jinn, who disobeyed Allah by not prostrating to Adam.

In my opinion, Jinn is some kind of angel, only different in the way it is created. Because in the verse Allah only told ANGELS to prostate.

LL
How can you love an invisible God yet you fail to love your family, friends, neighbours, and fellow human beings?
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B.H.
 
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Quote B.H. Replybullet Posted: 20 July 2006 at 12:22am
Originally posted by Lamplighter

Dear BH,

Allah knew that Satan (Iblis) would disobey and chose to create him anyway.

But why?

Angels and jinns prostrated to Adam, except Iblis, who was a jinn, who disobeyed Allah by not prostrating to Adam.


In my opinion, Jinn is some kind of angel, only different in the way it is created. Because in the verse Allah only told ANGELS to prostate.

LL

 

I was responding to to the question as to why Allah created Satan. 

From what I have read in the Holy Quran, it appears that the term Jinn and Angel can be used interchangeably, with devil being the term used for wicked ones among them.  I am a new convert to Islam, and do not know as much as I wish I did.  If anyone knows more than I please enlighten me.

 



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fatima
 
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Quote fatima Replybullet Posted: 20 July 2006 at 4:04am

Bismillah irrahman irrahim

Assalamu alaikum

Angels and Jinn are two different beings. The difference between jinn and angels is that angels are created of light, while jinn are created of fire. As ‘Aa’ishah reported: "The Messenger of Allah said: ‘The angels are created from light, just as the jinn are created from smokeless fire and mankind is created from what you have been told about.’" (Reported by Muslim, no. 2996). Their is also ayah about creation of jinn from fire and smokeless fire, 55:15] And He created the jinn of a flame of fire.

Angels (upon whom be peace) do not reproduce, while jinn do. Angels do not commit disobedience, while jinn include both the obedient and the disobedient, both believer and unbeliever, the rebellious of them being called devils. Jinn assume various forms, both noble and base, such as that of a snake and the like, while the angels (upon whom be peace) only assume noble forms, like that of a human being. Angels are not called to account on the Day of Judgement, but rather enter paradise, and whoever disparages one of them has committed unbelief.

Jinns however are been given choice of choosing good or bad and will be dealt with accordingly. There are many narrations which suggest that jinns were created about 2000 years before human beings. They were dwelling on earth and caused great mischief that is why when Allah swt told angels that He is creating Adam (as), thier reply was, why would you create some1 who would cause mischief while we worship you all the time. This knowledge was from seeing jinn living in earth.  

Now the devil, iblis who disobeyed Allah swt was a jinn, but he used to compete with angels for worship. So Allah swt gave him a place with angels as a reward for his worship. There are narrations which suggest that his worship started because he somehow found out that Allah swt is going to make His viceroy on earth. It could have been done through listening to the orders given to angels. It is stated in Surah Jinn that jinn used to listen to the conversation of angels about thier duties and Allah swt guarded that by sending shooting stars after them. t So iblis wanted to be that viceroy and was never sincere in his worship. So when Allah swt ordered angels, He included iblis in that order due to iblis's attempt of competing and false showing off.

Lastly the wisdom behind creating some1 knowing this creation is going to disobey is solely with Allah swt. All i can say is His knowledge of future dont interfere with the choice and if the disobedient were not let to be born then what was the point of life on earth. Because we are been told it is to see who is rightous, So if only rightous were allowed to live, why not straight entry into paradise? I think we have to grab hold of little things to try to make sense of bigger picture. We are only given limited knowledge and sense and persuming something bigger than ourself is only going to lead us stray.

wassalam

Say: (O Muhammad) If you love Allah, then follow me, Allah will love you and forgive you your faults, and Allah is Forgiving, MercifuL
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ummziba
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Quote ummziba Replybullet Posted: 20 July 2006 at 4:54am

Assalamu alaikum,

I once heard a very good explaination for why the verse says Allah told the angels to bow down...apparently in Arabic one uses the majority, in other words, if one were speaking of a room full of boys and one girl, one would say "the boys", not the boys and the girl.  So, with angels in the majority and one jinn, the verse is simply following the normal "rules" of the Arabic language by saying the angels and not the angels and the jinn.

Peace, ummziba.

Sticks and stones may break my bones, but your words...they break my soul ~
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