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Islam for non-Muslims
 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : Religion - Islam : Islam for non-Muslims
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B.H.
 
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Quote B.H. Replybullet Posted: 20 July 2006 at 6:55pm
Originally posted by ummziba

Assalamu alaikum,

I once heard a very good explaination for why the verse says Allah told the angels to bow down...apparently in Arabic one uses the majority, in other words, if one were speaking of a room full of boys and one girl, one would say "the boys", not the boys and the girl.  So, with angels in the majority and one jinn, the verse is simply following the normal "rules" of the Arabic language by saying the angels and not the angels and the jinn.

Peace, ummziba.

 

That makes a lot of sense too. Thanks for the post.

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B.H.
 
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Quote B.H. Replybullet Posted: 20 July 2006 at 6:57pm
Originally posted by fatima

Bismillah irrahman irrahim

Assalamu alaikum

Angels and Jinn are two different beings. The difference between jinn and angels is that angels are created of light, while jinn are created of fire. As ‘Aa’ishah reported: "The Messenger of Allah said: ‘The angels are created from light, just as the jinn are created from smokeless fire and mankind is created from what you have been told about.’" (Reported by Muslim, no. 2996). Their is also ayah about creation of jinn from fire and smokeless fire, 55:15] And He created the jinn of a flame of fire.

Angels (upon whom be peace) do not reproduce, while jinn do. Angels do not commit disobedience, while jinn include both the obedient and the disobedient, both believer and unbeliever, the rebellious of them being called devils. Jinn assume various forms, both noble and base, such as that of a snake and the like, while the angels (upon whom be peace) only assume noble forms, like that of a human being. Angels are not called to account on the Day of Judgement, but rather enter paradise, and whoever disparages one of them has committed unbelief.

Jinns however are been given choice of choosing good or bad and will be dealt with accordingly. There are many narrations which suggest that jinns were created about 2000 years before human beings. They were dwelling on earth and caused great mischief that is why when Allah swt told angels that He is creating Adam (as), thier reply was, why would you create some1 who would cause mischief while we worship you all the time. This knowledge was from seeing jinn living in earth.  

Now the devil, iblis who disobeyed Allah swt was a jinn, but he used to compete with angels for worship. So Allah swt gave him a place with angels as a reward for his worship. There are narrations which suggest that his worship started because he somehow found out that Allah swt is going to make His viceroy on earth. It could have been done through listening to the orders given to angels. It is stated in Surah Jinn that jinn used to listen to the conversation of angels about thier duties and Allah swt guarded that by sending shooting stars after them. t So iblis wanted to be that viceroy and was never sincere in his worship. So when Allah swt ordered angels, He included iblis in that order due to iblis's attempt of competing and false showing off.

Lastly the wisdom behind creating some1 knowing this creation is going to disobey is solely with Allah swt. All i can say is His knowledge of future dont interfere with the choice and if the disobedient were not let to be born then what was the point of life on earth. Because we are been told it is to see who is rightous, So if only rightous were allowed to live, why not straight entry into paradise? I think we have to grab hold of little things to try to make sense of bigger picture. We are only given limited knowledge and sense and persuming something bigger than ourself is only going to lead us stray.

wassalam

 

Thank you for this information.

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Angela
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Quote Angela Replybullet Posted: 20 July 2006 at 7:44pm

Life is a test.  I believe God knew Satan would not bow to Adam, or however his disobedience and betrayal is taught.  He knew that in order for people to have freewill and exercise that to Chose the Right Path, there needed to be a choice contrary to God.  If there was only one choice for humans to make and no evil to test us and lead us astray, then what is the point of having freewill? 

God could have created this world free of pain, suffering, evil, disease, greed, war and false religions.  But then would he know if we were obedient because we were making that choice or because there is no other alternative.

I like the statement in Genesis...

15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Satan only has as much power as we give him.  We have the freewill.  We can deny him.

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Israfil
 
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Quote Israfil Replybullet Posted: 22 July 2006 at 5:56pm

If I may add.........

Islam, Christianity and Judaism have similar ideas on Satan (or Lucifer) and how this developes. A more modern philosophy of Satan that exist in Judaism perceives Satan as not an entity but as part of a moral character of humans. Since humans are capable not just making good choices but also bad choices. In addition, some Jews do not perceive the fall of both Adam and Eve and the tempation of Satan as literal, but a conceptual story which involves the moral judgement made by man and how man cannot achieve spiritual enlightenement or God's influence until this immoral inclination is subdued. In more of the mystical aspects of Judaism Satan or (Enemy of Man) was an Angel created in the Empyrean (Highest Heaven) from the Shekinah which is comparable to the Islamic concept of nur or light.....

Satan (or sometimes referred to as Sotanail) became arrogant because he thought we was greater than man because man was created from earthly matter, or dirt. Satan, being created not only in the empyrean, but from light which exceeds all physical boundaries, thought his physical being was greater not only than man's but than all the beings of Heaven tried to raise his throne as equal to God. But was caste to Earth. So yes in this case Satan went from Angel to "Fallen Angel."

The Christian concept is a bit confusing because the comparison between Lucifer and Satan as the same entity. The name Lucifer which means "morning star" is misconstrude and misappropriated to Satan because in the Bible Jesus himself is referred to as the "morning star." But in moving forward Lucifer much like the concept of Sotanail in Jewish mysticism was created from God's light or his glory. Lucifer being of the Seraphim is the highest of all Angels and actually according to some theologians in the Middle Ages was "God's first love" then when God created mankind he fell from grace because his arrogance and hatred for man overtook him. Not only dedicated to making war with humanity but also with God.

In Islam it is somewhat similar yet different. Ibliss is perhaps seen as the Lucifer of both Judaism and Christianity. Although Ibliss is roughly translated as "devil" in English if one examines the Quranic verses with the behavior of  Satan/Lucifer in Judaims and Christianity we can see similar (if not the same) behavior. Of course Ibliss would not bow to Adam therefore he commits himself to recking havoc upon humanity through temptation.

It's quite amazing when I studied Lucifer's history because he is seen as the prince of Evil or the "father of lies" and so forth which, it appears that theologians and Christian historians have noted that Satan/Lucifer has actual power. God appears to have given Satan limited authority over humans. These powers perhaps transcend from the spiritual to physical realm which makes me wonder if its true that "The Devil made me do it." It also makes me state the question how do we discern the behavior of humans and the temptation of Satan. If Satan is truly tempting is with an overpowering authority, how can we be faulted for his influence? Since historically Lucifer has commanded a following as well as an influence it would be impossible to think he doesn't have true power and authority.

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