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Interfaith Dialogue
 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : Religion - Islam : Interfaith Dialogue
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Rehmat
 
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Quote Rehmat Replybullet Topic: Prophecy or history?
    Posted: 14 April 2005 at 4:52am

Christian missionary have the habit of quoting many statements from Jewish Bible to prove that Jesus was prophesized by the earlier Isra’elite prophets. However, a close scrutiny will show that those statements were merely the records of various events, which happened in the past. Jesus (as) is not mentioned by name, even once, in Jewish Bible – though the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) has been mentioned in ‘Songs of Solomon’; as ‘Shiloh’; the ‘Son-of--Man’. And King David called him ‘My Lord’.

 

For example, in Isaiah 9:6-7

 

For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulders; and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The Mighty God, The Everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace…

 

According to Jews and Christians this referred to the child that Isaiah fathered, while two his friends watching (sic); and is the third of three prophecies related to this child:

 

1.Chapter 7 of Isaiah tells King Ahaz not to worry about the King of Syria invading his country.

 

2.He offers sign to reassure King Ahaz that he should not fear rival king. The sign he offers is a child about to be born and his name would be called Immanuel.

 

3.In Chapter 9, he says of this same child that the government would be on his shoulder; his name shall be called Wonderful………

 

Prophecy 1 is proven false by 2 chronicles: 28, which details how the King of Syria did invade and defeated Ahaz and slew 120,000 Jews.

 

Prophecy 2 is also proven false by the child not being named Immanuel; he was named Maher-Shalal-Hash-Baz (Isaiah 3:3). Furthermore, Joseph and Mary did not name their baby Immanuel either.

 

Prophecy 3 is also false. It never happened – unless it refers to al-Mahadi; but then his name is supposed to be Muhammad Ahmed.

 

That’s why Dr. Robert Funk said that 80% Biblical narrations are not ‘divine’, but later-day corruption.

 

 

 

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Quote blond Replybullet Posted: 14 April 2005 at 5:42am

You have an interesting point of view.

I have heard that many will come in the name of Jesus in the last days. Many will be deceived into following these devils. The most deceptive one will be the Anti-Christ, whom will deceive the whole Earth.

I have my own perspective on these scriptures you have named. I believe they have been fulfilled. But I do not share the same exegesis that you have used.

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Quote Rehmat Replybullet Posted: 14 April 2005 at 7:01am

Originally posted by blond

....I have my own perspective on these scriptures you have named. I believe they have been fulfilled. But I do not share the same exegesis that you have used.

You mean the Isaiah or the other ones I mentioned in my post?

What is your perspective of Deuteronomy 18:18?

I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto THEE' and I will put my words in his mouth, and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.

Who fulfilled this prophecy - Jesus (as) or Muhammad (pbuh)?

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Quote blond Replybullet Posted: 14 April 2005 at 10:39am
Originally posted by Rehmat

What is your perspective of Deuteronomy 18:18?

I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto THEE' and I will put my words in his mouth, and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.

Who fulfilled this prophecy - Jesus (as) or Muhammad (pbuh)?

From what I understand of it, Musa is mentioned more in the Holy Quran than Muhammad (pbut). Musa's primary work was that he civilized and freed a nation of slaves, and then gave the the Laws of God. He is called "The Law Giver".

Why is this relevent? The scripture you qouted refers to a future time when the work that Musa did would be needed again, amongst a whole nation of hard hearted slaves, who (like the Children of Israel) were in bondage for 400 years. These people were taken out of their native lands and their names were changed to Shadrack, Meshack and aBadNegro (joke). Likewise, their is a whole nation of slaves in America who fit this description.

Matthew 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

This may get me into trouble with some of you scholars here, but I believe that this scripture was put into poetic language which is used by Secret Societies, and could refer to the coming of one from the Muslim lands of the East, to America. In Masonic terminology, he would be called the one wearing the Lion's Paw, the one with the Master's grip. I believe that the carcase mentioned could refer to the remains of a people who once were alive, but are now considered dead by all the people of the Earth; i.e... negro (which is from the root word necro, or death). In Masonic terminology, they would be called Hiram Abiff, the Keeper of the blueprints to King Solomon's Temple, who was buried alive in the Northwest Country. I believe the eagles are a sign of the government of America. I believe that America is going to play a great role in the completion of the prophecies of the Bible and Holy Quran.

I will stop here.



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Quote Rehmat Replybullet Posted: 15 April 2005 at 6:45am

Originally posted by blond

....From what I understand of it, Musa is mentioned more in the Holy Quran than Muhammad (pbut). Musa's primary work was that he civilized and freed a nation of slaves, and then gave the the Laws of God. He is called "The Law Giver"

NOT quite true. Prophet Musa (as) is mentioned more time by 'name' than the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) - and so is Marriam (as) more than Musa (as). The Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) is mentioned in Holy Qur'an by name five times only - However, Allah (swt) has preferred to mention the Prophet (pbuh) by his many 'attributes' - just like He did for Himself.

Prophet Moses (as) main job was to bring back 'Banu Israel' back to the message of prophet Abraham (as) which they had corrupted and were taken in slavery for their rebellion against Allah. Prophet Moses (as) was not given a 'new law' - but a part of everlasting 'Law of Islam'.

...The scripture you qouted refers to a future time when the work that Musa did would be needed again, amongst a whole nation of hard hearted slaves, who (like the Children of Israel) were in bondage for 400 years. These people were taken out of their native lands and their names were changed to Shadrack, Meshack and aBadNegro (joke). Likewise, their is a whole nation of slaves in America who fit this description.

NOT true again.

Prophet Musa (as) was followed by several mighty prophets, i.e. Dauwd, Suleman, etc., who did not come to free the slaves but rule very poweful nation of Banu Israel. Even prophet Yahya (John the Baptist), Zakriyya and Essa (Jesus) did not come to some 'nation of slaves'. And when finally, the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) appeared in Makkah in 6th century - Arabs were not slaves nor their land occupied by the two most powerful empires of that time - Roman and Persian

Thus the said Deu. prophecy was that This prophet would be like Musa (as) - And the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) matches with (on 12 counts) more than any other prophet came after Musa (as).

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Quote blond Replybullet Posted: 15 April 2005 at 7:20am

Originally posted by Rehmat

NOT quite true.

Prophet Moses (as) main job was to bring back 'Banu Israel' back to the message of prophet Abraham (as) which they had corrupted and were taken in slavery for their rebellion against Allah. Prophet Moses (as) was not given a 'new law' - but a part of everlasting 'Law of Islam'.

Musa (pbuh) did bring a Law to Bani Israel. It is called the Pentatuch

Originally posted by Rehmat

NOT true again.

Prophet Musa (as) was followed by several mighty prophets, i.e. Dauwd, Suleman, etc., who did not come to free the slaves but rule very poweful nation of Banu Israel. Even prophet Yahya (John the Baptist), Zakriyya and Essa (Jesus) did not come to some 'nation of slaves'. And when finally, the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) appeared in Makkah in 6th century - Arabs were not slaves nor their land occupied by the two most powerful empires of that time - Roman and Persian

Thus the said Deu. prophecy was that This prophet would be like Musa (as) - And the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) matches with (on 12 counts) more than any other prophet came after Musa (as).

I won't belabor the point. Most of the prophesies concerning the Time in which we live have been fulfilled. In time all things will be manifest.

Thank you.

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Quote Rehmat Replybullet Posted: 15 April 2005 at 7:44am

Originally posted by blond

..Musa (pbuh) did bring a Law to Bani Israel. It is called the Pentatuch
.

What prophet Musa received from Allah (swt) was Ten Commandments - And what the Rabbis wrote is known as 'Pentatuch'. And Musa (as) was not a Greek.

I won't belabor the point. Most of the prophesies concerning the Time in which we live have been fulfilled. In time all things will be manifest
.

But that has already been 'manifested' 1400 years ago - in the personality of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh).

http://www.ahmed-deedat.co.za/

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Quote blond Replybullet Posted: 15 April 2005 at 8:10am
Originally posted by Rehmat

Originally posted by blond

..Musa (pbuh) did bring a Law to Bani Israel. It is called the Pentatuch
.

What prophet Musa received from Allah (swt) was Ten Commandments - And what the Rabbis wrote is known as 'Pentatuch'. And Musa (as) was not a Greek.

I won't belabor the point. Most of the prophesies concerning the Time in which we live have been fulfilled. In time all things will be manifest
.

But that has already been 'manifested' 1400 years ago - in the personality of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh).

http://www.ahmed-deedat.co.za/

Musa received the "Ten Commandments" from Allah. However, the thing you were not taught is that the "Ten Commandments" are derived from the 147 Negative Confessions of Ma'at. They were not new. They were part of the Ancient Kemetic Mystery System that was the seat of Knowledge on Earth until well into the Dynastic period. The "Ten Commandments" were given in short form so that Musa could civilize the savages he was instructed to teach.

I will not go too far into it. You have enough now to keep you busy for a while.



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