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Islam for non-Muslims
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Tim Evans
 
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Quote Tim Evans Replybullet Posted: 11 February 2006 at 11:44am

Herjihad,

Thanks for this clarification.

"The leaders of the world who do not care for their followers will be held accountable on the Day of Judgment.  Muslims are not encouraged to accept these conditions on earth.  We are enjoined by Allah to fight against oppression." OK, it is very encouraging and even if we don't share the same the same faith.

 "The patience and inner strength we are encouraged to have is personal, but when corrupt leaders rule the world, we must rebel and overthrow them using whatever means we have available that are allowed by Allah." This is of particular interest if you have any references I could access.

"The point of the postings from the Holy Quran about giving in charity is that we are all accountable for our wealth and that we must give to the poor, for that is the only reason we have money, to please Allah, SWT, the Most High and Glorious, by giving to others who don't have it." I have no doubt abouts about the Muslim practice of charity, not only in financial terms, but also in the charitable conduct that makes life tolerable, but that open consideration for others which makes life joyfully. 

"And there is absolutely no shame in accepting the charity.  If we are instructed to give it, that also means that poor people are obligated by Allah to take the charity with good will and patience."  From all I have seen,  poor people are"obligated" to take charity by reason of their poverty alone, not for any other reason. I agree their is no shame in accepting charity, but I will always dispute the very reason for its necessity when we now have the capacity (if not yet the 'will', ) to do away with poverty. And charity on the part of the giver can not be an excuse for not working to end the cause of poverty. 

Who am I to tell the unemployed agricultural workers and their families throughout Asia, Africa and South America that they must accept "aid" with patience and goodwill. The disgraceful conditions of the garment workers of Bangladesh for example, should convince  both hardest and the purest of  harts that they are the most patient people imaginable, but my bet is that their good will is being tested to the limit. And the same for "the masses" everywhere.




Edited by Tim Evans
Tim in Britain
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Tim Evans
 
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Quote Tim Evans Replybullet Posted: 11 February 2006 at 1:14pm

 

Universal Soldier

He's five foot-two, and he's six feet-four,
He fights with missiles and with spears.
He's all of thirty-one, and he's only seventeen,
He's been a soldier for a thousand years.

He'a a Catholic, a Hindu, an Atheist, a Jain,
A Buddhist and a Baptist and a Jew.
And he knows he shouldn't kill,
And he knows he always will,
Kill you for me my friend and me for you.

And he's fighting for Canada,
He's fighting for France,
He's fighting for the USA,
And he's fighting for the Russians,
And he's fighting for Japan,
And he thinks we'll put an end to war this way.

And he's fighting for Democracy,
He's fighting for the Reds,
He says it's for the peace of all.
He's the one who must decide,
Who's to live and who's to die,
And he never sees the writing on the wall.

But without him,
How would Hitler have condemned him at Labau?
Without him Caesar would have stood alone,
He's the one who gives his body
As a weapon of the war,
And without him all this killing can't go on.

He's the Universal Soldier and he really is to blame,
His orders come from far away no more,
They come from here and there and you and me,
And brothers can't you see,
This is not the way we put an end to war.

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Tim in Britain
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Ketchup
 
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Quote Ketchup Replybullet Posted: 11 February 2006 at 1:55pm
Originally posted by Tim Evans

A story about 'Faith'.

A young man once complained to his priest about the poverty, starvation and other cruelties in the world. And said that God would not permit it, therefore there was no God. The priest said that in order to have faith in God the young man must pray. And got the answer, "How can I pray without faith"? 

 

One thing that puzzles me.. to have a faith you need something to believe in.  When you die you go where ever your god says is heaven.  Where do you go if you dont believe in a god?  Obviously you cant go to hell because with out a heaven you can't have a hell.. only both can exist if you have a god. 

Can anyone answer this for me?

 

 

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Maryga
 
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Quote Maryga Replybullet Posted: 11 February 2006 at 9:55pm

Tim Evans, from your postings it seems to me that you are disillusioned by the actions of those who claim to act in the name of religion. People's behaviours (who claim to act in the name of religion)and faith in the existence of God are two separate issues. If you really dwell upon the second aspect then you must try to block out peoples actions because each one is only accountable for his/her actions.

How to dwell upon the second aspect ie existence of God? There are countless occurences before us that leave us baffled if only we stop and think about them. Why does the Sun rise every morning? How is it that the dry earth is revived again? Why does that seemingly dead seed sprout into a delightful plant and give so much pleasure with its produce? Science can only explain how this occurs but who is behind it? Certainly there is a most powerful force far beyond our imagination that is working to see the constant array of miracles which we pass by without stopping to observe. It is the one who stops to observe and think - it is he/she that finds God and finds peace and comfort in Him. Because He begins to communicate with Him and gets responses (this may sound illusionary to the sceptic, but only the true believer knows it).

Ketchup, this response is also for you.

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Ketchup
 
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Quote Ketchup Replybullet Posted: 12 February 2006 at 2:35am
Hey thanks, but it doesnt really answer my question.
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AhmadJoyia
 
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Quote AhmadJoyia Replybullet Posted: 12 February 2006 at 8:26am
Probably your question is more of asking the existence of God. If this is true, then you would also realise that if faith in God is an assumption without proof, then 'no God' is also no different than this assumption that is also without a proof. Isn't it? But whole of this discussion is beyond the perview of the topic of current thread. So I shall not deviate from the rules of this forum. 
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awesomeJ
 
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Quote awesomeJ Replybullet Posted: 12 February 2006 at 9:08am
Assalam-alaikum

I'm newbie here..
but when I watch movie - The Matrix
I start to beleive (in my own interpretation),
that we live in a world which is govern by law of nature which i would like to repronounce as 'sunnatullah' - law that Allah have stated even before the creation of universe, that govern all living or non-living thing.
 
If you understand how the comp. programs work, like the computer program in the matrix movies, the program itself has the path or mathematical formula that 'predetermined' for the program to run.. and as a human, as a part of universe, we can have several choices to enter the input of the program and the output will produce result, consequences, outcome etc based on the 'sunnatullah, or mathematical, law , rules or whatever you want to call it.

In other words.. we have the freedom to choose our action (our action may not be predetermined).. but for sure wo don't have freedom to choose our outcome..

choices --> process by sunnatullah --> outcome


wallahu a'lam


Edited by awesomeJ
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Tim Evans
 
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Quote Tim Evans Replybullet Posted: 13 February 2006 at 3:19am

The Question seems to be this:

People who have a 'faith' tend to believe that the world and their lives, and other peoples lives, are 'determined' by whatever God or force that they believe in. However, allow they believe that God determines everything they also believe that God has given humans 'free will' which can act against what is already 'determined'. ANY OBJECTIONS SO FAR?

People who don't have 'faith' in a God may also believe that things are 'determined', but not by a God. Some of these people believe that every single thing that happens (including all human actions and thoughts) are already 'determined' by what happened before, (fate or destiny if you like) so they have no 'free will', they say. And some say no there is no God, general 'determinism' is true and 'free will' is also true. IF YOU ARE STILL AWAKE, IS THIS ANY CLEARER.

So, here are at least three different ways of thinking and talking about things. Is it any wonder that there is such confusion in discussions? All insist that their view is correct. Should we set out to prove the question either way, or just leave it for everyone to continue with their 'faith' whether it is true or not?

Best wishes

Tim in Britain
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