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Islam for non-Muslims
 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : Religion - Islam : Islam for non-Muslims
Message Icon Topic: Free Will Post Reply Post New Topic
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Ketchup
 
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Quote Ketchup Replybullet Posted: 17 February 2006 at 2:07pm
Originally posted by Tim Evans

To all on this thread.

Why is it that people with a religious 'faith' devoid of proof by there own admission, insist on explaining their 'faith 'by use of earthy historical, material examples?

If 'faith' in a god is the absolute determinant of all things, why bother with arguing about proofs? 'Faith' should be able to provide the force.  

   

 

Why are you full of contradiction?  Do you enjoy playing one off against the other?  You should be ashamed.

"The days followed one another patiently. Right back at the beginning of the multiverse they had tried all passing at the same time, and it hadn't worked."
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Tim Evans
 
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Quote Tim Evans Replybullet Posted: 17 February 2006 at 3:37pm

Kechup,

You are a provocateur, a person without principle. You have been spreading discord without regard for the consequences. Explain yourself. 

 

Tim in Britain
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AhmadJoyia
 
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Quote AhmadJoyia Replybullet Posted: 17 February 2006 at 3:46pm

To make the record straight and clear, Sis herjihad, kindly note that the initial topic as well as topic starter (research3) has nothing to do with existence/non existance of God, that some people are asking proof of. I am simply trying to explain the concept of "free will" to those who only understand the "materialistic" language through their own channel. Its strange that they ask me about the proof of spiritual realms to which they have no familiarity. Yet they don't offer any other alternative mechanism, other than faith, to explain the unique differnces between humans and animals. Isn't it strange?

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Tim Evans
 
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Quote Tim Evans Replybullet Posted: 17 February 2006 at 5:11pm
Originally posted by AhmadJoyia

To make the record straight and clear, Sis herjihad, kindly note that the initial topic as well as topic starter (research3) has nothing to do with existence/non existance of God, that some people are asking proof of. I am simply trying to explain the concept of "free will" to those who only understand the "materialistic" language through their own channel. Its strange that they ask me about the proof of spiritual realms to which they have no familiarity. Yet they don't offer any other alternative mechanism, other than faith, to explain the unique differnces between humans and animals. Isn't it strange?

The unique difference between humans and other animals is that humans are able to consciously make their (own) world, first in their heads (minds) and then again in their struggle with the 'external' world. In this process we transform the external world and our own physical, mental, and moral nature.

Now, you were offered an opportunity to gracefully withdraw from this argument because I considered that the debate was uncomfortable for you. You abused that offer in the most un-gracious manner. You now attempt to restart the debate on your own terms.

So, you will now be able to explain: What is the difference between humans and animals, in order that we can all understand your worldly opinion.

 



Edited by Tim Evans
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AhmadJoyia
 
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Quote AhmadJoyia Replybullet Posted: 17 February 2006 at 8:33pm

O my dear bro Tim, why are you so offended with my posts? Are these so hard on you? Is there any discussion on this whole forum, where your anger is not being reflected, on one member or the other? So, is it time for me to get a share from you? I never intended that. Even after your offensive "shut up" call, I happily decided to quit, but certain posts later including the one from your "stab at the back" where I was being directly/indirectly addressed, I couldn't let their replies unanswered. Is this a big thing to come back to, simply to reply back, through most logical way, that I can think of, without the iota of disrespectful. Do you also want me to reply you back in the same tone when you further say "You abused that offer in the most un-gracious manner. You now attempt to restart the debate on your own terms. ".

 However, I shall not attempt to pay you back in the same tone, just to let every one distinguish, from our conversation, the difference between the "wilds" and the "Civilized". Indeed, 'logical discussion' is one thing that can't take place among the "wilds".

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Angel
 
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Quote Angel Replybullet Posted: 17 February 2006 at 9:47pm
Originally posted by Tim Evans

Kechup,

You are a provocateur, a person without principle. You have been spreading discord without regard for the consequences. Explain yourself. 

How about leaving ketchup alone!

~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~
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herjihad
 
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Quote herjihad Replybullet Posted: 18 February 2006 at 6:49am

Bismillah,

We have free will, yet Allah, The Most Glorious, the Most Knowledgeable, knows everything that has or will happen.  We need to apply this idea to our lives by making wise choices because we as individuals are responsible for everything we choose or choose not to do.  Of course, this easily applies to atheists as well.  Everyone wants to take responsibility for her own actions, right?

Faith and free will interact freely.  The faithful attempt to follow Allah's guidance making wise choices along the way.  We know that even if this world is harsh, our Bounitful Lord is The Most Forgiving and Merciful and that we need strive towards pleasing Allah in order to achieve success in this world and in heaven.

Faith is a choice.  You don't have to have faith, but you still have free will.  We who choose to have faith have chosen for a myriad of reasons and have been guided to that by a myriad of means by Allah's Mercy.  Faith is a huge topic, so maybe if anyone is interested in why each of has faith in Allah, and in heaven, he should post a topic requesting our Faith based stories.

For those of us with Faith, Free will is the determining mechanism for it's implementation.  Faith alone is satisfying, but what shall it do left alone as an idea?  We put action into our faith through our faith with every action we take when our faith sincerely guides us.

Al-Hamdulillah (From a Married Muslimah) La Howla Wa La Quwata Illa BiLLah - There is no Effort or Power except with Allah's Will.
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Tim Evans
 
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Quote Tim Evans Replybullet Posted: 18 February 2006 at 11:24am

Ahamad,

What you wrongly interpret as anger is in fact straight talking as opposed to the sneaky tactics of the "civilized", Slyly changing the subject of discussion or pedantically picking on some word or other in order to create a false track.

The contribution above by herjihad is not nervously concerned with trying to 'get one over' on the godless ones and is a perfectly understandable declaration of faith in relation to 'free will'.

And the final paragraph make the point I was making earlier about the argument "going round in circles" which is entirely consistent and  with an argument for faith and as opposed to my wholly materialist approach, but you were at pains to deny it.



Edited by Tim Evans
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