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Quote Cassandra Replybullet Posted: 15 July 2006 at 4:47am
Originally posted by amalhayati2

Originally posted by Whisper

Whisper wrote:

Finally, I have got the time to breathe.

We must get organised and push Angela's Plan further no matter what anyone thinks or says. I have just finished a meeting with someone closely connected with someone very prominent on the global Muslim stage (a legendary ex-prime minister of possibly th finest country in the Islamic world). He seems to have good aroma about this plan being initiated by people!

Will post a plan of action on the 14th


Amalahayati wrote: does anyone else notice the vague implementation of these words??  Someone closely connected...legendary EX-prime minister....of possibly

what is this some sort of game?  What are we kids to think that a bunch of internet savy individuals will supersede the tactics of larger grassroot organizations like Islamic Relief, CAIR, MPAC and others that have spent years involved overseas affairs.  Don't you ppl know the Bush Administration oversees every inch of what goes on in Iraq and what goes on here in America.  

What you cassandra, angela, whisper and others members pro with this good but waaay over your head wacky idea are doing is dangerous to islamicity.    

unknowingly you guys will be asking for attention from the NSA or CIA or even FBI.


call me paranoid but hey, i'm a muslim and whatever i say might and will be used against me- remember a lawyer's favorite phrase against Muslim organizations, "they are supporting the terrorists" 

if they got that against you, you AND islamicity are shunted to oblivion.

(unless you are a spy, then you've done your job well)



Originally posted by Angel

Angel wrote: Cassie, what you said to amalhayati2 below is uncalled for, you have been nothing but sacastic thru out your post.

I am sorry but I have to stand up for her.

Originally posted by Cassandra

As for your snipes first at Whisper, and then at the rest of us trying at least to do something SMALL (see my signature at the bottom of this post, or did you forget to put your specs on LAST TIME?), your contempt is beneath my contempt.  And believe me, you couldn't top my contempt if you were on the ISS.

Most of you know that I try to be a voice of moderation here, but this amalhayati2 person has really got my Goat!

amal, put forth a legimate concern she had and you put her down, I thought you said that disagreements were welcomed that you asked for along with agreements and you put her down, good one   

As I mentioned in good faith at the pond, you need to calm down,

Angel, no, I am sorry but I do not feel that I owe an apology to anyone unless you count the one that I have just posted to you elsewhere.  The original post by Whisper was written in good faith, Amalhayati's comments were SNIPES.  Her paranoid comments about attracting undue attentions annoyed me, and I wrote what I thought.  Perhaps I could have been a little more subtle about it, but the end result would have been the same.  I did not see Amalhayati disagreeing with anything we have written about the plan.  I saw her taking pot shots at those participating, calling them "spies", insinuating words about "supporting the terrorists", etc., (where is the logic in this, please? We are working for PEACE.  That's the irony of all of this.  How could that possibly threaten Islamicity's existence or reputation) and so on.  I responded perhaps too quickly, but no, other than that I stand by what I said.

If the Moderators request it, I will apologise in a very carefully thought out PM.

I feel that this is developing into a certain tension between you and I, and I would like us to put a stop to it right now, if you don't mind. Please, do not tell me to "calm down".

As I said elsewhere, I would far rather than we remain friends.  Cassandra

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Quote Cassandra Replybullet Posted: 17 July 2006 at 5:21am

Suleyman posted: ................Stacy Bannerman and Sue Niederer brought two pairs of empty boots to the House hearing chaired by Conn. Rep. Christopher Shays -- strangely titled "the Evolving Strategy for Success in Iraq" A report from the GAO Controller Walker reported that the administration has been unwilling to estimate the future costs of the war, now running about 3 billion a week. He was criticized by Republicans for being negative. Rep. Dennis Kucinich passionately stated that US continues to make more enemies everyday. When a Democratic Congressperson asked incredulously how the Administration continues to reward contracts to companies who fail to provides services and are blatantly corrupt, Stacy and Sue were severely admonished for applauding. They did, however, escape arrest. Georgia and Celeste were not permitted into the hearing because they carried the pictures of Sue's son Seth and Celeste's son Sherwood, No dead soldier pictures were permitted in the hearings on success in Iraq...............


Women who had lost their loved ones in Chile during the Pinochet regime would dance publically with photographs of their husbands, sons, fathers pined to their dresses. No other form of protest was allowed them

on threat of arrest and incarceration.


They Dance Alone (Cueca Sola)


Why are these women here dancing on their own?

Why is there this sadness in their eyes?

Why are the soldiers here

Their faces fixed like stone?

I can't see what it is that they despise.

They're dancing with the missing,

Dancing with the dead.

They dance with the invisible ones,

Their anguish left unsaid.

They're dancing with their fathers,

Dancing with their sons,

They're dancing with their husbands.

They dance alone.  They dance alone.


It's the only form of protest they're allowed.

I've seen their silent faces, they scream so loud.

If they were to speak these words

They'd go missing too.

Another woman in the torture table.

What else can they do?


One day we'll dance on their graves.

One day we'll sing our freedom.

One day we'll laugh in our joy.

And we'll dance.



Ellas dansan por los desaparecidos

Dansan por sus muertos

Dansan por sus amores invisibles

Dansan con silencio angusto

Dansan con sus padres

Dansan por sus esposos

Ellas dansan solas

Dansan solas


Hey Mr. Pinochet:

You've sown a bitter crop.

It's foreign money that supports you.

One day the money's going to stop.

No wages for your torturers.

No budget for your guns.

Can you think of your own mother,

Dancing with her invisible son?


They're dancing with the missing,

Dancing with the dead,

They dance with the invisible ones,

They're anger left unsaid.

Dancing with their fathers,

Dancing with their sons,

Dancing with their husbands.

They dance alone.  They dance alone.


From:  Nothing Like the Sun, Sting, 1987





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Quote Suleyman Replybullet Posted: 17 July 2006 at 12:09pm
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Quote Sign*Reader Replybullet Posted: 21 July 2006 at 11:48pm
Did this plan go on the wayside somewhere in Lebanon? 
Kismet Domino: Faith/Courage/Liberty/Abundance/Selfishness/Immorality/Apathy/Bondage or extinction.
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Quote Cassandra Replybullet Posted: 23 July 2006 at 8:46am

I think that may very well be the case, Signreader, and it saddens me.  None of us can afford to regionalise our shock and dismay at what is happening in the world today.  This is clearly part of a preconceived plan to take over control the entire Middle East. I have suggested that we form an umbrella group, gather information about, and contact other grass roots groups, but so far the response has been disappointing. We are all very good at talk, not so good at action. But nothing else but people power will ever change this dominated planet.  Is this the beginning of the end, or the end of the beginning.  That's the problem, isn't it?  We just don't know what part of history we inhabit. 

In the meantime, my heart goes out to the whole Middle East.  For that reason, I am posting a petition under "A Plea for Lebanese Civilians" in Current events.  It came from Canada. Please anyone who reads it, consider and sign.  I know, we all know, that these things don't do an awful lot of good.  But doing nothing achieves nothing.  Which is better?

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Quote Whisper Replybullet Posted: 29 July 2006 at 1:53pm

Brother, the plan did not go wayside or anything, anywhere. In fact, Lebanon lends it all the urgence it requires.

I have the promised proposal in hand, but it was difficult to find some place with more than 9.6 kbps I could muster through this journey. I will post hopefully by Tuesday.

It will stay Angela's Plan for her honest and sincere initiative. Plus, we don't require any unnecessary insignificant diversions.

Edited by Whisper
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Quote Duende Replybullet Posted: 01 August 2006 at 8:43am
I will be posting this on the forum set up at Across The Pond as I feel
that may turn out to be the natural home for Angela's Plan, since it is
both British and American troops who must withdraw. But I want to
have some feedback here aswell.

I’ve been reading posts on other forums with nothing to do with
politics ( where Americans are talking a lot about the
Israeli bombings of Lebanon. I’ve read comments posted by readers
on news and information sites commenting on articles about Israel’s
use of white phosphor, cluster bombs, targeting civilians etc. I have
been shocked at the level of bloodlust some people show, who are
confident in their assertions that force and war is the only answer.

But most of all I have been struck by the ease with which we all judge
and justify our own and other’s remarks and beliefs. It seems to me
that so long as we justify our disagreement with someone/something
with judgements such as: “that’s what I’d expect from a lefty/
commie peacenik coward”, or such as these: “she’s just a left-wing
feminist”; “he’s a Moslem radical”; “he’s a rabid liberal” etc. there will
be no progress towards settlement, there will be no negotiation. The
first obstacle is oneself. We do not need to put people into boxes in
order to understand what they are saying. The comment: “I see
where you’re coming from” means: “Ah, I see you are a liberal/
communist/ atheist/ orthodox Jew etc. The idea that someone has
“an agenda” buys into the same rigid and limited concept that we are
all just defending our political or religious viewpoints, rather than
defending our deeply held need to live in peace, and without the
threat of war.

When the Angela Plan was first mooted as a ‘movement’ I saw
nothing but difficulties and obstacles, and saw no future for any such
initiative. The war in Iraq has become such a Behemoth of a problem,
involving corporate plundering, the violence we all know about, and
the undeclared civil/internecine war, that I saw only complicated and
insurmountable problems. Now I have actually narrowed my focus
and this is what I think we can do: rather than found a new
organisation, we should try to bring existing organisations together
under one common cause: American withdrawal. This needs to be
done in America, as international viewpoints are barely taken into
consideration by the xenophobic G.W. Bush admin. I feel The Pond
may be the natural home for this initiative since it is both America
and Britain who must withdraw, hence it is the American and British
public who must form the critical mass of opposition to the American
led occupation.

There are many grass-roots organisations working for peace and
campaigning to bring the troops home, the American public (or so
we are told) are increasingly turning against the occupation, Bush
has the lowest ratings of any president before him and his party are
desperate to maintain their powerbases at home. Experience shows
that only when opposition at home reaches a critical mass (Vietnam)
does the administration start thinking about doing what the people
actually want. Reaching that critical mass MUST NOT take as long as
it did to end the Vietnam war. It must be reached soon, and I think
one way is to draw the various groups who currently don’t have a
link with one another together: strength in numbers.

For this, I suggest we form the umbrella pressure group which will
put these organisations together with the sole aim of becoming such
a loud noise that the government will have to sit up and listen. We
want the troops out of Iraq.

I also want the Israeli’s and Palestinians to get back to a negotiating
table, and I want all foreign troops out of Afghanistan. These don’t
necessarily have to be separate issues. With a working pressure
group dedicated to bringing all non-violent activists with a common-
ground together, we could also turn our attention to these problems.

Maybe this is a lazy way out? I mean, I’m sort of taking advantage of
all the work done by those who have formed and who run the various
pressure groups which already exist. But I just feel it would be a
waste of hard work to set up yet another non-governmental peace
organisation, and the time it would take to get it up and running is
time Iraq doesn’t have.

I know there are groups out there which are founded by Christians
and Moslems, groups affiliated with political parties or charities
owned and run by churches. I feel the organisation which brings
them together should be officially neutral, without political or
religious affiliations although members will of course come from all
sorts of backgrounds.

This is something like the negotiating table differing parties are
forced to sit down at during any labour strike. It would be a little bit
like the moderators sitting back and encouraging negotiation and
communication between the employers and the employees.

It’s not a big idea, it doesn’t involve lobbying for support from
politicians or corporations. But please let me know what you think,
and add suggestions. I have no need to listen to more rhetoric about
why America should not withdraw now, or any other argument in
favour of arms, or war. I’ve read enough and seen enough.
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Quote Hanan Replybullet Posted: 01 August 2006 at 10:08am
I wholeheartedly agree with you!
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