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 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : Regional : Middle East
Message Icon Topic: Daniel Dworsky, Please Read(Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post Reply Post New Topic
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ak_m_f
 
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bullet Posted: 21 June 2006 at 2:04pm
yea I got confused.... muslima pick blue
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ak_m_f
 
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bullet Posted: 21 June 2006 at 2:11pm
I found this great article, hope you dont mind If I post it:


The good news from the occupied territories is that Hamas won the elections. As opposed to what the chorus of national intimidation--speaking in one voice from Benjamin Netanyahu to Ami Ayalon--is saying, the political change in Palestine could be good news. Not that the victory of an extremist religious organization is not without dangers and problems, and that a secular, moderate and uncorrupt movement would have been preferable. But, in its absence, one can find quite a few points of light in the Hamas victory.
First, these are very authentic results, achieved through elections that were respectably democratic, even though they took place under the least democratic circumstances imaginable, the occupation. As usual, we were threatened by our experts with "anarchy," and, as usual, the Palestinians did not meet those expectations. There was no shooting and no rioting; the Palestinian nation had its say with admirable order. It said "no" to a movement that did not bring it any achievements in the just struggle against the occupation, and it said "yes" to those who appeared to the voters to be braver and with clean hands. The religious issue was set aside: Most of the Palestinians, it can be safely said, don't want a religious state; they want a free state.

Second, both Israelis and Palestinians can learn important lessons from the results of the election. The Israelis have to finally learn that applying force will not get the desired results. On the contrary. In recent years, until the tahadiyeh, the lull, there wasn't a month that went by in which we did not hear about the elimination of another "senior" Hamas official. From assassination to assassination, the movement o nly grew in strength. The conclusion: Force is not the answer.

The Palestinians also have to learn that it was the moderation of the movement that led them to victory. Hamas did not win because of terror attacks, it largely won despite the terror. It has been moderating in recent months, changing its skin, agreeing to a lull that has lasted since November 2004. During all that, its power only grew. As opposed to the fragmented Fatah, whose heads have no control over what happens on the ground, when Hamas wants, not even a toy gun gets fired. The few terror attacks of the past few months were not the handwork of the violent and murderous group we knew. This is an important lesson. Only Hamas can truly fight terror. The war Israel waged against terror, with its innumerable assassinations, demolitions, arrests and detentions, has been far less effective than one judicious decision by the heads of Hamas.

There's more good news. Only the right can do it? If that view is true, if only people of the right can bring peace, like Ariel Sharon on our side, then we are now facing a new chance that should not be missed. A peace deal with Hamas will be a lot more stable and viable than any agreement we sign with the PLO, if Hamas were to oppose it. Hamas can make concessions where Fatah would never dare. In any case, the Hamas that forms the government won't be the Hamas that sends suicide bombers. The comparison to international terror organizations is also nonsense: Hamas is a movement fighting for limited national goals. If Israel were to reach out to the extremists among its enemies, then maybe it can reach a real agreement that would put an end to the tumor of the occupation and the curse of terror.

To that end, both sides, Israel and Hamas, must free themselves of the slogans of the past. Those who pose preconditions, like disarming Hamas, will miss the chance. It is impossible to expect that Hamas will disarm, just as it is impossible to expect that Israel would disarm. In Palesti nian eyes, Hamas' weapons are meant to fight the occupation, and, as is well-known, the occupation is not over. Practically, and indeed morally, the armed are armed if they are equipped with F-16s or Qassam launchers. If Israel were to commit to an end to killing Hamas operatives, there is reason to assume that Hamas would agree, at least for a while, to lay down its arms. The months of tahadiyeh proved that, even when Israel did not cease its own fire. In the coming months, the risk of terror attacks will be further reduced: A movement that wants to consolidate its regime and win international recognition will not be busy with terror. Nor will it allow Islamic Jihad to steal the show.

Now is the time to reach out to Hamas, which is desperate for international, and particularly American, recognition, and knows that such recognition goes through Israel. If Israel were to be friendly toward Hamas, it could benefit. Not that Hamas will all at once give up its extremist demands and its unrealistic dreams, but it will know, as some of its leaders have already declared, to set them aside if it serves their interests. Israel, which in any case did not speak with Yasser Arafat or Mahmoud Abbas, now has an opportunity for surprise. Instead of wasting more years with rejectionism, at the end of which we'll sit down with Hamas in any case, let us reach out now to this extremist group, which was democratically elected. Israel has nothing to lose from such an approach. We've already seen the achievements of the hand that assassinates and demolishes, uproots and jails, we've already seen those policies fulfilled in front of our eyes: Hamas won the elections.

Gideon Levy writes for Ha'aretz.



Edited by ak_m_f
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Mishmish
 
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bullet Posted: 21 June 2006 at 2:18pm

5:32 On that account: We ordained for the Children of Israel that if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people. Then although there came to them Our apostles with clear signs, yet, even after that, many of them continued to commit excesses in the land.

It is only with the heart that one can see clearly, what is essential is invisible to the eye. (The Little Prince)
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Angela
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bullet Posted: 21 June 2006 at 2:33pm

I was speaking with a friend last night.  She is American, but her spouse and family are Palestinian.  She said Hamas is better than Fatah.  If they would just distance themselves from the Martyr's Brigade.  Hamas has opened daycares and done humanitarian aid, but they have killed innocents too.  That needs punished.  Just like the Israelis who kill innocents should be punished. 

There is never an excuse to kill an innocent.  As Mishmish posted the ayat. 

Originally posted by Mishmish

unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land

So, it matters not who you are or why you think your doing it.  If you take the life of a civilian, you have murdered.

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Daniel Dworsky
 
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bullet Posted: 21 June 2006 at 3:55pm
Muslima,

You asked if I lose sleep over Palestinians. Yes I do. Literally.

Truth be told I haven't slept since 1976. I am one of only six soldiers that
survived my platoon - recently part of a sleep research program that
revealed that I wake up as often as one thousand times in the course of a
night.

My hands are clean. I interfered with at least one attack on palestinian
civilians by a soldier in my care that later turned his weapon on me and
then himself ending his own life and filling my nights with horrors that
may be as fresh tonight as they were when I was a 19 year old Cadet 30
years ago.
Keffer shmeffer we are all precious and the same. I can't hurt another
human being with out doing damage to my self. Neither can you. I believe
this is mentioned in the Quran.


Edited by Daniel Dworsky
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Andalus
 
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bullet Posted: 21 June 2006 at 9:02pm
Originally posted by Muslima

There is no need to wish for a Palestinian state, there is already one and it is being occupied.

 

Actually, the idea of a nation state is a modern notion that comes from the west. Historically, the land referred to as Palestine was never a nation.

Originally posted by M

I love Hamas like the majority of Muslims.

MashAllah, God Bless Them. They are our future!

This extremely ignorant statement speaks volumes about you and your credibility. I do not know why it is in the 20th century, Muslims have lost their fear of Gd and continually wish to represent the Muslim community.

Sr, you do not represent Islam, the path of the Prophet or the deen of Allh that he brought, not me, not any of the people I know, nor the majority of Muslims. It is obvious you have an extremely superficial understanding of the events occuring in the world, and it is a shame that you have found the path of Gd, but you allow your mind to be used and littered with the trash of secualr politics, and to give more fuel to the western media machine to help this Ummah look like blithering fools. If all you have to say are ignorant and fool hearted statements like this, then as I Muslim I beg you to hold your tongue, that way the rest of the world can always give you the benefit of doubt.

   

A feeling of discouragement when you slip up is a sure sign that you put your faith in deeds. -Ibn 'Ata'llah
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Andalus
 
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bullet Posted: 21 June 2006 at 9:10pm

Originally posted by Daniel Dworsky

Muslima,

You asked if I lose sleep over Palestinians. Yes I do. Literally.

Truth be told I haven't slept since 1976. I am one of only six soldiers that
survived my platoon - recently part of a sleep research program that
revealed that I wake up as often as one thousand times in the course of a
night.

My hands are clean. I interfered with at least one attack on palestinian
civilians by a soldier in my care that later turned his weapon on me and
then himself ending his own life and filling my nights with horrors that
may be as fresh tonight as they were when I was a 19 year old Cadet 30
years ago.
Keffer shmeffer we are all precious and the same. I can't hurt another
human being with out doing damage to my self. Neither can you. I believe
this is mentioned in the Quran.

Salaams, Shalom, peace Daniel.

I apologize for the seemingly, many ignorant statements that come out of the minds of some people who call themsleves Muslims. It should be recognized that the powers of the world have created a false dichotomy: You back the forces that have been labled as good, or those who have been labeled as bad. As a Muslim, I choose to pick neither parties, as I find the behavior of Zionists, and Arab pseudo-religous groups to be at the epitome of disgraceful.

I pray to Gd that the powers that be are shamed by Gd, and those who follow the true paths of our faiths, Jews and Muslims, learn to live with the common grounds between us.

I also know that many Jews do not recognize the secular state of Israel, as the diaspora has not been ended by Gd. There are always groups who wish to twist their faiths to rationaliz bad behavior, and ignorant, and/or angry people are never hard to find.

Daniel Saenz Wise



Edited by Andalus
A feeling of discouragement when you slip up is a sure sign that you put your faith in deeds. -Ibn 'Ata'llah
http://www.sunnipath.com
http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/
http://www.pt-go.com/
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Andalus
 
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bullet Posted: 21 June 2006 at 9:14pm
Originally posted by Muslima

Angela,

Please e-mail Daniel directly, we do not need to read this. This is a request that only concerns daniel and that you should have e-mailed him.

This thread should be for discussion not personal request to other members.

Please moderators, delete this request from here and ask Angela to e-mail daniel for any personal demand she has to make.

I think this is only fair to other members. otherwise, we will be starting doing the same as well and this forum will become like an online newspapers with adverts...

Thank you, salam,

Muslima

Actually, I do  not have a problem with the response. In the future, if you do not like the material being presented in a thread, and it is not violating any of the rules in an "obvious manner", the best thing to do would be to avoid making "fitnah", and avoid the thread all together.

Thank you for your help.

A feeling of discouragement when you slip up is a sure sign that you put your faith in deeds. -Ibn 'Ata'llah
http://www.sunnipath.com
http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/
http://www.pt-go.com/
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