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Message Icon Topic: ’V’ for Vendetta Post Reply Post New Topic
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Israfil
 
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Quote Israfil Replybullet Topic: ’V’ for Vendetta
    Posted: 18 June 2006 at 11:58am

The question must be asked here:  Is Moral equivalency' really so wrong?" was a question asked by Los Angeles Times writer Henry Siegman. Siegman further writes:

"The death of an entire Palestinian Family-a father and his six children-on a Gaza beach earlier this month, followed just a few days later by an Israeli missile strike that killed nine more Palestinian civilians, has reopended the controversy about whether there is really much difference between Palestinian terrorism and Israel's military retaliations."

Perhaps the response to the said question would perhaps get a variety of answers which realstically speaking are impartial depending on who is answering it. For the so-called moderates on both sides the occasional cliche of "Violence begets violence" is lost in the sea amongst political extremes and religious furor. For the established Likud Party (which historically was a Jewish terrorist group before their installment in the Israel government) there seems to be no movement towards the peace process. As Siegman says "Former Prime Minister Ariel Sharon's unilateralism, embraced by his successor, Prime Minister Ehud Olmert, was never intended as a bridge to a renewal of the peace process but as a strategy for its avoidance."

The retaliation of both sides leads to a further gap and further political and social unrest will push a solution away. Another problem that exist here is ego. Both sides want power. Hamas wants the destruction of Israel and Israel wants the destruction of Palestinian militancy and control of central parts of Israel. Israel uses its excuse of accidental indiscriminate killings in the saying that it is protecting itself from annihilation. As Siegman writes: "No serious person can believe that Israel- with one of the world's powerful military establishments-is at risk of being undone and eliminated by Hamas or by any other terrorist group."

And what of Hamas as people on the other side  may see their attacks against Israel as retaliation against Israeli incursion on Palestinian lands. Because Palestine does not have a formalized army but security forces Hamas' military wing is not seen as a legitimate figure or a representative figure for the Palestinian people regardless of their installement in government office. Because they have made their intentions known now and because of their indiscriminate killings of the past they are seen as a terrorist group.

A common boundary must be acheive at the bargaining tables not in the streets where RPG's are aimed at civilians or rockets indiscriminately hitting targets. The only solution that can perhaps be discussed is going back to the pre-1967 border agreement. The question I ask for both is is it worth the lives of both Israelis and Palestinians that they spill blood-for one sides conquest and destruction of the other-and the other sides determination to hold additional territory?

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Mishmish
 
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Quote Mishmish Replybullet Posted: 18 June 2006 at 12:43pm

The attack by the Israelis, whether that's what THEY call it or not, was unprovoked and aimed at civilians. Civilians were killed. Hamas had brokered a cease-fire and they stuck to the cease-fire for 16 months prior to these two attacks.

Now, I am asking anyone and everyone to be completely fair and honest. If you were the Palestinians, what would you do? The government of Israel does not really want peace. That should be apparent to even the most optimistic person by now. Hamas was adhering to the cease-fire. The Israeli government wants the Palestinians gone, period. Dead, relocated, disappeared in the middle of the night, they don't care. They want them gone. They say that they are looking for a two state solution, then they move the bulldozers in and tear down more Palestinian houses to make more settlements. They say they want peace, then they continue shooting at children and bombing.

Do you really believe if this were happening to you right now, that you would just continue to allow the slow massacre of your family, friends, population, without even attempting to stop it?

Hamas is a terrorist organization because the Israelis say so? As the article states, the Likud party are also terrorists. The only difference is, Palestinians have no home, no true government, and no military because it was TAKEN from them. So because they have no U.S./Israeli sanctioned military, anything they do to protect themselves is an act of terror.

The logic and morality here makes my head want to explode....

 

It is only with the heart that one can see clearly, what is essential is invisible to the eye. (The Little Prince)
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Israfil
 
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Quote Israfil Replybullet Posted: 18 June 2006 at 2:45pm

As I mentione dhere that the Likud Party is a terrorist organization installed in the Israeli government that is the whole point in the article of the question if moral equivalency is so wrong......Moral equivalency in this issue is wrong. Hamas was a terrorist organization long before this whole issue exploded, no pun intended. Hamas is not an established military wing nor, prior to their installment in the government had the intention of protection of the people.

Actually thier statment towards the Israelis was that they wanted to see the destruction of Israel. To me this goes beyond protection to an offensive. You say be fair? What about Kassam rockets that are fired indiscriminately to Israeli compounds? Although they are primitve and have no accuracy we can imagine the what if's, let say, a child happen to venture and be hit with one of these rockets. We can go back and forth and say "Well thousands of Palestinian children are dying" however this is the whole point, thus calling the subject 'V' for Vendetta because it seems both have a vendetta against each other.

There is no moral equivalecy here on continuous violence that will spawn hatred on both sides. There is no logic nor is there a justification on either side to kill innocents. Just because the Likud Party is a "reformed" terrorist group doesn't make them right either. The same goes for Hamas. When you take hatred towards a people and attack a group of people who had no personal attack on you or your cause then you are going beyond the rational behavior......

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Muslima
 
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Quote Muslima Replybullet Posted: 18 June 2006 at 3:02pm

Every single Israeli is guilty of being there. The very presence of Israelis on Palestinian land is crimical because this is not a normal immigration. They stole the land (see forum on the middle east and my message to Daniel there).

Israeli civilians are living in Israel at the expense of Palestinians. They stole the water, they separated families. War is war and Hamas were elcted by the people because they are the only ones to have done a lot of social work in Palestine, contrary to Fatah which has been stealing a lot of money and has been controling the palestinian people just like a mafia.

Muslima

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Israfil
 
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Quote Israfil Replybullet Posted: 18 June 2006 at 7:21pm
I agree Israelis should not live at the expense of Palestinians but as people of scripture the violence must stop
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Quote Muslima Replybullet Posted: 19 June 2006 at 12:36am

I think the violence must stop too but it comes from Israel.

People stsrving,t his is violence.

People not given their land, this is violence.

People not having access to hospitals and schools, this is violence.

People having to go through check points, this is violence.

People begging for work on their own land, this is violence.

People having a ridiculous salary and having to slave for the Zionist master, this is violence.

We have to use any means to get them out and we will! InshAllah!

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