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lovetabuleh
 
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Quote lovetabuleh Replybullet Posted: 10 July 2006 at 10:19pm

The Theory of evolution in writing outwardly denounces and ignors any intervention of a divine Being within it's framework.  Evolutionary teachers preach that and so do evolutionary science books. 

You are right to say that all those creations from millions of years ago have a reason and a purpose to exist.  Allah is vast in His knowledge. We are not denouncing any of God's plans.

"Say, 'If the sea were ink for (writing) the words of my Lord, the sea would be exhausted before the words of my Lord were exhausted, even if We brought the like of it as a supplement.' "  Quran 18:109

Also many aspects of evolution we do see occuring in nature: like adaptation.  Adaptaion is under the banner of evolution and it clearly exists. 

species have lived on earth for millions of years, in different biological environments.  i'm not refuting fossil record. neither am I questioning Allah's method of creating. 

  the twelveth name of Allah is The Evolver, Al Bari.    but i think this is in terms of adaptation.  not morphogenisis from fish to folks. 

You say "time is a human invention".  not according to the Quran.  Allah created time.  There is a chapter in the Quran titled, Time (ch 103) . 

The islamic callender is Islamic because that is how Allah defined the yearly callender to be.  we did not invent it.

 Time in our world is not like time in His world. that is the only difference.  6 days to us is different than 6 days to Allah.  we say they are 6 'periods'.  and a period is as long as Allah makes it to be. 

 

 

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Angela
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Quote Angela Replybullet Posted: 11 July 2006 at 9:08am

Well, I would agree with time being different for a being without beginning or end. 

However, time was defined by man before the Revelation of the Quran.  Lunar calendars were common.  But there were lunar calendars, Solar calenders, etc.  I think in a way, the Islamic calendar was a way for Allah to put all the Ummah on the same page. 

We define our time measurements based off of Allah's creations.  A day is 24hrs to us because that is how long God set the rotation of the earth and John Harrison dividing the world into 24 parts for the sake of oceanic navigation. 

Its not that Time itself is the invention of man, but the measurement of time.  We know the earth revolves around the sun 365.25 rotations of the earth.  We call these revolutions days.  Mars rotates 24.6 Earth hours and takes 687 earth days to move around the sun. 

God created our beginning and end....its up to us how we define that time.

Adaptation is evolution to a certain extent.  I watched a really interesting show on the flying reptiles that eventually became the birds we have today.  Adaptation led to one species becoming another.  Does this mean it was not by the will of God?  Of course not.  I think it was perfectly within his plan.

Still, what about the People of Nod?  If Eve is the Mother of all living? And Seth and Cain married from other Peoples?  Where did those people come from?  Certainly God did not have the children of Adam and Eve married to their own siblings, when he has forbidden that kind of relationship?

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herjihad
 
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Quote herjihad Replybullet Posted: 11 July 2006 at 2:32pm

Bismillah,

Allah, SWT, has changed laws througout time as He saw fit for the civilization whom he sent the laws to.

Peace

Al-Hamdulillah (From a Married Muslimah) La Howla Wa La Quwata Illa BiLLah - There is no Effort or Power except with Allah's Will.
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Angela
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Quote Angela Replybullet Posted: 11 July 2006 at 2:45pm

Ummm, I still don't see him changing one that important.  Genetics and history has taught us the undesireable consequences for imbreeding.

They multiplying done in the peoples of Genesis takes place two quickly in two few generations for it just from one man and one woman.  WE are not rabbits, nor do we normally give birth to multiples.  Especially in ancient times.  High infant mortality rates, High mortality rates among women giving birth.  Death in childhood or adulthood, short life spans...why is it so hard to believe that Adam and Eve were the first HUMANS and that God created others too?  Not everything is written down.  WE do not have the records of all the prophets. 

Sometimes you have to use logic.

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lovetabuleh
 
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Quote lovetabuleh Replybullet Posted: 11 July 2006 at 11:05pm

Allah doesn't need to 'use logic'. if he wants something to be done he but says unto it "Be!" and it is.    concerning how humans multiplied from Adam and Eve, there is some information from books or scholars about that. 

what I know is that Eve bore a pair of kids every time she consumed.  she consumed many times.  each pair was a male and female.  those pairs married with other pairs of the next kids she had and so on.  Whether each pair had unique characteristics similar to the hundreds of different races on earth today, I am ignorant about the details.  Asking a Muslim scholar about details of what Allah made possible through Adam and Eve is a smarter idea.

As a Muslim we submit ourselves to His will and his way.  we donnot question something beyond our capabilities.  Allah is infinite and our minds are finite.  the finite will never compete with the infinite. 

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Quote Muhammad77 Replybullet Posted: 12 July 2006 at 12:10am

It is only logical to believe that before anything was created there had to be a Creator. It is, also, only logical to believe that this Creator had to be an eternal being without beginning or end and that nothing could be like this Creator. It is this Unique Being Whom the Qur'an calls Allah the Lord, the Only Supreme Being worthy of worship.

When Allah the Most High decided to create the earth, sun, planets, stars, and the galaxies - those that are known and those that are unkown to us - He commanded them: 'Be!' and they were. Almighty Allah said: Verily, His Command, when He intends a thing, is only that He says to it, 'Be!' - and it is!   Surah 36:82

As for the method of creation, it is unknown to us except what Allah revealed, which is that He created the heavens and the earth and the spaces in between in six days.

Allah the Exalted declared: Allah it is He Who has created the heavens and the earth, and all that is between them in six days.   Surah 32:4

These six days are calculated as Allah the Almighty's days. This means they are not like our days on earth, as we count the day according to the earth's rotation once around its axis and the year according to its orbit around the sun. Perhaps these six days are thousands of years, or even millions of centuries, by our calculation nowadays, or perhaps they are more or less than that. They might be something totally different by Allah's reckoning.

Allah told us that He created the heavens, the earth, and everything that is between them in six days, then established Himself on the throne of the universe. Everything submitted to His will; everything was indebted to Him; everything prostrated and showed reverence to Almighty Allah. He controlled the working of everything and everything needed Him. He is the One Who needs nothing and no one, but everything and everyone needs Him. All was complete. Allah the Almighty's will had been accomplished. The universe was created and had prostrated to Him as a symbol of its need and its desire for sustenance and in submission to His will.

  



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ak_m_f
 
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Quote ak_m_f Replybullet Posted: 12 July 2006 at 4:11am
Originally posted by amalhayati2

Allah doesn't need to 'use logic'.



Then why didnt Allah created us in to the zombires, why need to give us brain & logic so we can choose the right path?

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Angela
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Quote Angela Replybullet Posted: 12 July 2006 at 8:35am
Originally posted by amalhayati2

what I know is that Eve bore a pair of kids every time she consumed.  she consumed many times.  each pair was a male and female.  those pairs married with other pairs of the next kids she had and so on.  Whether each pair had unique characteristics similar to the hundreds of different races on earth today, I am ignorant about the details.  Asking a Muslim scholar about details of what Allah made possible through Adam and Eve is a smarter idea.

Please provide you reference from the Quran, Torah or Bible that supports this claim.

Logic is reason, reason is what makes us think, we are meant to think unlike the Angels who are without free will.

By your theory, if Adam and Eve were the Mother and Father in this manner.  We would all look alike.  We would all have similar skin tones, eye colors, hair colors, facial features.  Genetic diversity does not allow for all the children to have been born in this manner.

Also, there are many scholars that calculate the generations of the bible, in this they have found only 7,000 years have passed since Adam and Eve.  I put my figure closer to 70,000 when a supervolcano created a genetic bottleneck.  The article I'm including in one of many on the subject.  But my point being is that we do not breed fast enough to have gone from 2 to 6 Billion in the generations from Adam to the present.  

Lets put it this way....Adam according to Genesis lived to be 930 years old.  This was more in likely because he was created perfect, without infirmaty and disease.  According to Genesis, Abel, Cain and Seth were single births, with no mention of sisters being born in between.  Genesis 4 specifically mentions the People of Nod.  Now, I digress.  Lets say that Adam and Eve never lost fertility in their 930 years.  Which is stretching things, but we will do this because its a counter arguement, I personally would say Eve probably hit menopause around 500-650 years old.  But, we'll say they were fertile from age 25 through 900...that's 875 years.  That's 1750 people according to your (unreferenced) source that she bore twins everytime.  So, when did we switch to solitary births?  15 years ago, only 1 in 5 live births were multiples.  We'll give it 3 generations of doubles.   Oh wait, before we do all that math....there's the flood.  We're back to ground zero.  Noah and his family.....So, with single births the norm for Noah and his clan, we are back to the genetic bottleneck.  So, why don't we all look like Jews?

Evolution or Adaptation, however you want to play with words does not deny the existence of God.  Even if Darwin did. He noticed a trend and many of his theories have been debunked and changed over the years with the development of new techniques in science.

God created the Universe, he decided how it would work.  From the Dust of the Cosmos was formed the first Stars, then the Galaxies and Planets.  Then a rain of comets bearing water brought forth our planet.  These are awesome forces to just randomly make a few people on a rock near a yellow sun in the outer arm of a galaxy.  Of course God was in command of all these forces.  Who are we to say he didn't take his good old time and build us up from a molecular level?  He gave us a brain for a reason and he's commanded us to use it.

http://www.accessexcellence.org/WN/SU/evolving998.html

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