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Angela
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Quote Angela Replybullet Posted: 13 July 2006 at 7:37pm
Then answer me Schwester.  How old is the planet?  How long have Humans existed since the time of Adam???
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lovetabuleh
 
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Quote lovetabuleh Replybullet Posted: 14 July 2006 at 7:00am

In the process of creating His creatures, Allah doesn't need to use logic as a protocol to His method.  That's why I said if Allah wants something to be, she just says unto it "Be!" and it is. 

when we observe his creation, we see perfection and we use logic to see the clear signs of a Divine Creator.  

Don't get me wrong.  I never implied that we humans don't need to use logic.  We were innitially discussing how Allah created many persons from Adam and Eve.

Angela is using logic when talking about the consequences of Adam and Eve's children marrying themselves.  She is right, we know today how imbreading causes genetic mutation.  But at the time when Allah created adam and eve there were a lot of miracles, by the will of Allah (how Allah caused it to happen) they produced excessive progeny to bring about what we see today in the human race.

There are Muslim scholars who've studied this where you could ask about the details of how Allah brought about different races and ethnicities from Adam and Eve.  The extent of what I know about it i've said on a previous post. 

but dont' try to hard to comprehend it if you solely want to use logic, this is the place where we use our name in action.  (muslim= one who submits)  whole-heartedly we submit to the will of Allah on that He is the All Able, the All Knowing. 

again i say, in deep subjects such as how Allah created, you could use logic up to a point. then it jsut goes beond our reasoning. that's where our finite minds fail to compete with the Infinite, Allah.  and we say, Subhanallah! Allah is capable of all things, we submit to the All Powerful, the All Wise.

I'm not saying we shouldn't use logic at all- absolutely not! it's logic that Allah refers to over and over again in the Quran to use to see the signs of His existance.

 

 

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Quote lovetabuleh Replybullet Posted: 14 July 2006 at 7:14am
 

[/QUOTE]

Logic is reason, reason is what makes us think, we are meant to think unlike the Angels who are without free will.

By your theory, if Adam and Eve were the Mother and Father in this manner.  We would all look alike.  We would all have similar skin tones, eye colors, hair colors, facial features.  Genetic diversity does not allow for all the children to have been born in this manner.....

Lets put it this way....Adam according to Genesis lived to be 930 years old.  This was more in likely because he was created perfect, without infirmaty and disease.  According to Genesis, Abel, Cain and Seth were single births, with no mention of sisters being born in between.  Genesis 4 specifically mentions the People of Nod.  Now, I digress.  Lets say that Adam and Eve never lost fertility in their 930 years.  Which is stretching things, but we will do this because its a counter arguement, I personally would say Eve probably hit menopause around 500-650 years old.  But, we'll say they were fertile from age 25 through 900...that's 875 years.  That's 1750 people according to your (unreferenced) source that she bore twins everytime.  So, when did we switch to solitary births?  15 years ago, only 1 in 5 live births were multiples.  We'll give it 3 generations of doubles.   Oh wait, before we do all that math....there's the flood.  We're back to ground zero.  Noah and his family.....So, with single births the norm for Noah and his clan, we are back to the genetic bottleneck.  So, why don't we all look like Jews?

[/QUOTE]

you see how using logic is not 'logical' here! hahaha  we'd go crazy with our finite minds trying to figure out how Allah, the Infinite, created!   Let's just throw in the towel and say if Allah wills for something, she just says unto it, "Be!" and it is. 

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schwester
 
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Quote schwester Replybullet Posted: 14 July 2006 at 10:34am
Originally posted by Angela

Then answer me Schwester.  How old is the planet?  How long have Humans existed since the time of Adam???


huh?? asking me?
lemme think some, well i guess the planet is 24years old, isn't it?
really didn't catch why you ask it? seems like i'm getting older faster than my age and already retarding.
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Angela
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Quote Angela Replybullet Posted: 14 July 2006 at 12:11pm

The reason I'm asking is that, is people who take Genesis literally, put the age of the planet at 6400-8010 years.  Here's some examples...

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/geohist.html

http://www.grisda.org/resources/MS_rb-bibch.htm

Now, we know from evidences, using the laws of nature God created that the Earth is more like 4 Billion years old. 

My point is, we cannot take Genesis literally.  However, that doesn't mean that Adam was not created from dust and Eve from his rib.  Perhaps they were the first humans with intelligence and a spiritual connection to God.  Perhaps they were the first humans 300,000 years ago....The evidences for Noah's flood show that it was probably around 10,000 BC and encompassed the area around the Black Sea (actually causing the creation of the Black Sea).  This was the known world to our ancestors.  It would have seemed like God wiped out the whole earth.  But even if God wiped out the whole earth in 10,000 BC.  WE are all decendents of Noah...so where did the Asian peoples come from that Migrated to the America's around 40,000BC.  Or the Aborigines (I butchered that) in Austrailia that have a culture that's over 100,000 years old?

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lovetabuleh
 
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Quote lovetabuleh Replybullet Posted: 14 July 2006 at 5:23pm

Check it out folks!- i just got information about Adam's creation. whatever i said earlier about Adam and Eve having pairs of kids- SCRATCH-THAT. I got that from something else unrelated to the story of Adam.

 Here's the real deal, I got info from the CD of Imam Anwar Al-Awlaki. He has a 40-part series of the 'Lives of the Prophets' begining with Adam.  (I really recommend this package of CD's- Imam Anwar is a VERY interesting speaker and very knowledgable !)

This is what he said about the creation of Adam:

Hadith:

"Allah created Adam from a hand full of dirt picked from all of Earth so the children of Adam became red, white, black and everything in between, and they became soft and tough, bad and good and everything in between"

Commentary: That's why we see people of all colors, we have sincere individuals, and we have got those tough guys (now we know what them bullies in school have been formed from!  ) Allah took some soil from the mountains, some from the valleys. Allah took soil from firtile land and from non firtile land.  We've got people who live in mountains, valleys and everything in between. There are those who are infertile, cannot bare children and there are those who can.  There lives on earth good people and bad people.

Hadith Muslim:

"Allah has created Adam on his image (adult image)."

Commentary:

Allah has created Adam as he is in adult form.  Adam didn't go through developmental stages (embryo... fetus... infant... child, etc)

Allah blew His soul into Adam, and then Adam sneezed.  Allah said, "yarhamuka-allah" (like 'bless you' but literally it means 'Allah's Mercy be upon you') This is the first thing that happened to Adam. So the first thing Allah did with Adam was send mercy upon him.

Adam was given 1000 years to live.  Allah created Eve out of Adam's rib. 

( HERE'S THE PROGENY PART )

All the decendents of Adam came out of his back.  When Allah created Adam, Allah stroked Adam's back and they all fell down from his back.  Allah put some light between their eyes.

Adam questioned those people and Allah said, "these are your desendents"  Adam saw Prophet David, his light shown bright to Adam.  Adam asked Allah who that man is and Allah told him it's Prophet David.  He liked him so much that Adam gave up 40 years of his 1000-year lifespan to give to prophet David.

Adam then will live 960 years.  960 years later after that insident, the Angel of Death came to Prophet Adam to take his life.  Adam rememberd that Allah told him he has 1000 years to live. So he told the angel that he has 40 years left.  The angel said, "didn't you give 40 years to Prophet David?"  Adam denied.  Adam fergot and so he denied. 

Hadith Sahih:

"Adam denied and so his children deny. Adam fergot so his children forget. Adam made a mistake so his children make mistakes."

Commentary:

In arabic the word 'insan' which is the word for 'human beings' come's from the root work 'nasa' which literally means 'to forget.'  It is human nature to forget. 

Prophet Adam died at 960years old.

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Quote ak_m_f Replybullet Posted: 14 July 2006 at 7:18pm
Originally posted by amalhayati2

Check it out folks!- i just got information about Adam's creation. whatever i said earlier about Adam and Eve having pairs of kids- SCRATCH-THAT. I got that from something else unrelated to the story of Adam.


 Here's the real deal, I got info from the CD of Imam Anwar Al-Awlaki. He has a 40-part series of the 'Lives of the Prophets' begining with Adam.  (I really recommend this package of CD's- Imam Anwar is a VERY interesting speaker and very knowledgable !)


This is what he said about the creation of Adam:


Hadith:


"Allah created Adam from a hand full of dirt picked from all of Earth so the children of Adam became red, white, black and everything in between, and they became soft and tough, bad and good and everything in between"


Commentary: That's why we see people of all colors, we have sincere individuals, and we have got those tough guys (now we know what them bullies in school have been formed from!  ) Allah took some soil from the mountains, some from the valleys. Allah took soil from firtile land and from non firtile land.  We've got people who live in mountains, valleys and everything in between. There are those who are infertile, cannot bare children and there are those who can.  There lives on earth good people and bad people.


Hadith Muslim:


"Allah has created Adam on his image (adult image)."


Commentary:


Allah has created Adam as he is in adult form.  Adam didn't go through developmental stages (embryo... fetus... infant... child, etc)


Allah blew His soul into Adam, and then Adam sneezed.  Allah said, "yarhamuka-allah" (like 'bless you' but literally it means 'Allah's Mercy be upon you') This is the first thing that happened to Adam. So the first thing Allah did with Adam was send mercy upon him.


Adam was given 1000 years to live.  Allah created Eve out of Adam's rib. 


( HERE'S THE PROGENY PART )


All the decendents of Adam came out of his back.  When Allah created Adam, Allah stroked Adam's back and they all fell down from his back.  Allah put some light between their eyes.


Adam questioned those people and Allah said, "these are your desendents"  Adam saw Prophet David, his light shown bright to Adam.  Adam asked Allah who that man is and Allah told him it's Prophet David.  He liked him so much that Adam gave up 40 years of his 1000-year lifespan to give to prophet David.


Adam then will live 960 years.  960 years later after that insident, the Angel of Death came to Prophet Adam to take his life.  Adam rememberd that Allah told him he has 1000 years to live. So he told the angel that he has 40 years left.  The angel said, "didn't you give 40 years to Prophet David?"  Adam denied.  Adam fergot and so he denied. 


Hadith Sahih:


"Adam denied and so his children deny. Adam fergot so his children forget. Adam made a mistake so his children make mistakes."


Commentary:


In arabic the word 'insan' which is the word for 'human beings' come's from the root work 'nasa' which literally means 'to forget.'  It is human nature to forget. 


Prophet Adam died at 960years old.



where u got this info from?
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lovetabuleh
 
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Quote lovetabuleh Replybullet Posted: 14 July 2006 at 10:09pm

in my post that you quoted, the begining reads: "I got info from the CD of Imam Anwar Al-Awlaki. He has a 40-part series of the 'Lives of the Prophets' begining with Adam.  (I really recommend this package of CD's- Imam Anwar is a VERY interesting speaker and very knowledgable !)"

 

here is a short biography about the Imam from this website: http://www.dar-us-salam.com/store/mc41.html

Imam Anwar Al Awlaki was born and raised in New Mexico, USA. He obtained BS in Civil Engineering from Colorado State University, MA in Education Leadership from San Diego State University and is currently doing a PhD in Human Resource Development at George Washington University.

He is the author of a series of Audio lectures on the "Lives of the Prophets", covering the stories of the Prophets from Adam to Jesus (PBUT) of which over 20,000 copies have been published. The series is drawn from Imam Ibn Kathir's "Al-Bidayah wa An-Nihayah".

He is currently involved in the ongoing study of Shariah in Yemen. His shuyukh include prominent scholars in Yemen.

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