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Interfaith Dialogue
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Message Icon Topic: Jesus Christ did not die for our sins. Post Reply Post New Topic
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AnnieTwo
 
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Quote AnnieTwo Replybullet Posted: 15 June 2006 at 3:51am
Originally posted by Angela

Mishmish,

That very point is one of the reason Orthodox Christians reject my faith....they believe by Grace alone will we be saved that no works are needed.

But, I'm glad you think I'm doing well.  LOL



I don't think so, Angela.

Good works is proof of one's faith.  If you don't have good works, you don't have faith.  Faith comes first and then the good works follow.

I don't know much about your faith so I can't comment on it.

But if a person thinks that good works is going to get them into heaven without true faith then I am afraid they are mistaken.

Annie
14If you are reproached for the name of Christ, blessed are you, for the Spirit of glory and of God rests upon you. On their part He is blasphemed, but on your part He is glorified. 1 Peter 4

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AnnieTwo
 
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Quote AnnieTwo Replybullet Posted: 15 June 2006 at 3:52am
Originally posted by Maryah

Originally posted by Angela

Mishmish,

That very point is one of the reason Orthodox Christians reject my faith....they believe by Grace alone will we be saved that no works are needed.

But, I'm glad you think I'm doing well.  LOL

Maryah,

Faith without Works is DEAD...Can't they read?


It is not grace alone as I explained to Angela in my previous post.

Annie


Edited by AnnieTwo
14If you are reproached for the name of Christ, blessed are you, for the Spirit of glory and of God rests upon you. On their part He is blasphemed, but on your part He is glorified. 1 Peter 4

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AnnieTwo
 
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Quote AnnieTwo Replybullet Posted: 15 June 2006 at 4:03am
Originally posted by Mishmish

Annie:

God ALWAYS has a choice....

 



In the case of Adam God had to make him without a mother and a father.  Do you see?

In the case of Jesus He could have had a prophet with a human father and mother, but He didn't chose to do so.

Why do you think God chose to have Jesus born without a human father?  For what purpose?  What reason does the Qur'an give for this?

Annie
14If you are reproached for the name of Christ, blessed are you, for the Spirit of glory and of God rests upon you. On their part He is blasphemed, but on your part He is glorified. 1 Peter 4

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BMZ
 
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Quote BMZ Replybullet Posted: 15 June 2006 at 5:19am

Dear Annie,

From you:"In the case of Adam God had to make him without a mother and a father.  Do you see?

In the case of Jesus He could have had a prophet with a human father and mother, but He didn't chose to do so.

Why do you think God chose to have Jesus born without a human father?  For what purpose?  What reason does the Qur'an give for this?"

This in itself could be a huge topic. Could you please post this as a new topic and all of us can go back to the topic that Jesus did not die for our sins.

Thanks in anticipation.

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Patty
 
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Quote Patty Replybullet Posted: 15 June 2006 at 7:04am

In the Roman Catholic Church we believe we must have great faith as well as works.  We are to do as Christ said and "feed the needy, clothe the naked, visit the sick and imprisoned, etc.  If we fail to meet the obligations as laid out by Jesus, we have failed him miserably.  There are many who claim to be Christians (and who am I to judge), but they're examples are rather shoddy to say the least.  They never seem to be happy, they don't want to help with anything at Church, if you offer a handshake they seem "put off" by it.  They certainly do not "let their light shine" as Jesus told us to do. 

So, yes, I believe it is most important that in addition to having great faith in the words of our Lord, and believing the scriptures and Gospels, we must additionally live the life of a Christian as we have been told.....not suggested, but told to live.  What good are we as Christians if we have memorized the Bible in its entirety, but fail to follow the teachings and commandments.  It is worthless to say we believe "every single word" but fail to follow those words. 

Maybe the Greek Orthodox Church does not believe in works, Angela, but I can assure you the Roman Catholic Church does!

May the peace of God be with you always.

Patty

I don't know what the future holds....but I know who holds the future.
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Patty
 
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Quote Patty Replybullet Posted: 15 June 2006 at 7:25am

Scriptures do reveal that repentence and acknowledgement of Jesus as the Redeemer, as well as doing good works, are in combination, necessary for salvation:

For "Anyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved." (Romans 10:13)

But to all who believed him and accepted him, he gave the right to become children of God. (John 1:12)

What this means is that those who become Christians become new persons. They are not the same anymore, for the old life is gone. A new life has begun! (2 Corinthians 5:17)

Jesus said: "No, and I tell you again that unless you repent, you will also perish." (Luke 13:5)

Then we must also combine good works with our repentence and faith, as well as acknowledging Jesus as our Lord and Redeemer.

The Faith and good works situation is very similar. Good works are the necessary fruits of faith for "Faith without works is dead", Jm. 2:14-26. It is true that if one has faith, it is necessary that good works follow. However, we cannot look at a man who does good works and assume he has Faith, for even the pagans do good deeds and do not have Faith.

To say that good works are not necessary for salvation is a falsity. It is Faith combined with good works that is necessary for Salvation. The two apart from one another are useless. I hope that somewhat gives you my viewpoint on the whole situation.

God's Peace.

Patty

I don't know what the future holds....but I know who holds the future.
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Angela
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Quote Angela Replybullet Posted: 15 June 2006 at 7:47am
Originally posted by Patty

 

Maybe the Greek Orthodox Church does not believe in works, Angela, but I can assure you the Roman Catholic Church does!

May the peace of God be with you always.

Actually, I was referring to the ever popular "Born Agains" who say works aren't needed.  This is from the street preachers and protestors that harass us ever General Conference.

http://www.inchristalone.org/GraceAlone.htm

Here's what be believe....

http://www.fairlds.org/Bible/Are_We_Saved_by_Grace_Alone.htm l

 

If you are living a faithful Christian life, then you are doing works.  But, I know a few ladies from back at my grandmother's Methodist Church that sit there every Sunday, but when the bake sales or charity programs happen, they disappear.  Hypocrisy is everywhere.

That is what we mean by you must have works.  Its not good enough to just say it, you have to do it.

Frankly, I don't know what the Eastern Orthodox church teaches on Grace, the subject never really came up. 

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AnnieTwo
 
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Quote AnnieTwo Replybullet Posted: 15 June 2006 at 9:56am
Originally posted by bmzsp

Dear Annie,

From you:"In the case of Adam God had to make him without a mother and a father.  Do you see?

In the case of Jesus He could have had a prophet with a human father and mother, but He didn't chose to do so.

Why do you think God chose to have Jesus born without a human father?  For what purpose?  What reason does the Qur'an give for this?"

This in itself could be a huge topic. Could you please post this as a new topic and all of us can go back to the topic that Jesus did not die for our sins.

Thanks in anticipation.



I choose my own topics.

Annie
14If you are reproached for the name of Christ, blessed are you, for the Spirit of glory and of God rests upon you. On their part He is blasphemed, but on your part He is glorified. 1 Peter 4

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