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Interfaith Dialogue
 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : Religion - Islam : Interfaith Dialogue
Message Icon Topic: Jesus Christ did not die for our sins. Post Reply Post New Topic
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ChristianLady
 
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Quote ChristianLady Replybullet Posted: 19 December 2006 at 9:37am

bmz

What you fail to see is the HOLY GHOST/ HOLY SPIRIT/ SPIRIT OF TRUTH are all the same thing. I will prove it to you with another translation THE SAME VERSE John 14:26 calls the comforter the COUNSELOR and the Spirit of TRUTH. If you notice it is again a SPIRIT now who is the one that cannot read? IF you claim Mohamed is the SPIRIT of truth you are claiming Mohammed is God and you just blasphemied God.

Now I will give you SEVERAL translation.

Now this is you're statement below

John 14: 15"If you love me, you will obey what I command. 16IAnd I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever-17 the Spirit of Truth."

Now here is the EXACT same verse this is from the King James Now notice the comforter will abide with you FOREVER. Mohammed is not here no more. He is gone. The Holy Spirit/the spirit of truth is still here with the CHRISTIANS.

15 If ye love me, keep my commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Now lets look at other translations THE SAME VERSE.

15 "If you love me, you will keep F121 my commandments. 16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Advocate, to be with you forever. 17 This is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, because he abides with you, and he will be in you

NOTICE is says ADVOCATE, comforter in the greek means someone who comes along side of counselor, comforter, advocate,and it even says the world cannot recieve him SO THAT CANNOT be mohammed, because the very next part of says BECAUSE IT NEITHER SEES HIM NOR KNOWS HIM. Mohammed was able to be seen as a physically man. So again you appearently cannot read very well. And then it says he will be IN you. Mohammed cannot be inside of a man but the Spirit of truth/Holy Ghost/Holy Spirit can because again it is a Spirit.

Now lets look at yet another translation which I never do but it proves again the SPIRIT of TRUTH is the Same as the Holy Ghost and Holy Spirit

NOW remember this is the same verse

New Living Translations proves you wrong AGAIN

15 "If you love me, obey my commandments. 16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor, who will never leave you. 17 He is the Holy Spirit, who leads into all truth. The world at large cannot receive him, because it isn't looking for him and doesn't recognize him. But you do, because he lives with you now and later will be in you

NOW LOOK at verse 17 in all the ones I gave you THE SPIRIT of truth is the Holy Spirit. You have not read very well or studied very well.

I have to get back to work. I will not respond tonight. I have shown ample proof that The Spirit of truth is the Holy Spirit. You need to study not just look at a verse.

I will talk to everyone tomorrow

 

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Quote Hanan Replybullet Posted: 19 December 2006 at 11:50am

Hold fast to the rope of Allah, and be not divided



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Quote Israfil Replybullet Posted: 19 December 2006 at 4:44pm

ChristianLady.

Without insulting your sensitivities shouldn't we call it quits regarding this issue because its obvious that the more we continue this conversation the more it becomes circular. I don't think we can have a discourse without critique especially if the participants aren't as willing to listen and maybe think about the constructive criticism. ChristianLady, you obviously are not going to be swayed regardless whether we logically put it out there using our references, you reference or even Barnes and Nobles references. Honestly, and no offense Lady, but why both even having a dialogue?

If your answer is gonna be "Nobody has not proven that Muhammad is a true prophet" or "Islam is true" then what is the point? With those comments its obvious you don't even know Islam enough to even begin to challenge us to prove the existence of our prophet. Rather, you should come with an open mind and question then, when you have sufficient knowledge challenge us as well as yourself on the obtained knowledge.

I'm sure you know somewhat of our religion but if your so-called humble actions is to challenge us by having us prove to you then your greatly mistaken. Why is the burden on me to prove to you that my prophet existed or that Islam is the right religion? Isn't that not my own conviction? ChristianLady again, I'm not saying this to offend you but rather say this to criticism your position. I highly doubt you'd even want to challenge me regarding doctrine because I go to the max when it comes to discussions such as these but rather, maybe I can refer you to some good books on Islam and then maybe we can talk cordially.

Note: To my Muslim brethren to continue this discussion is now proven to be pointless. To continue means that you will involve yourself in a circular discussion that is meaningless.



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BMZ
 
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Quote BMZ Replybullet Posted: 19 December 2006 at 4:48pm

Lady,

From you:

"Now here is the EXACT same verse this is from the King James Now notice the comforter will abide with you FOREVER. Mohammed is not here no more. He is gone. The Holy Spirit/the spirit of truth is still here with the CHRISTIANS.

15 If ye love me, keep my commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Now lets look at other translations THE SAME VERSE.

15 "If you love me, you will keep F121 my commandments. 16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Advocate, to be with you forever. 17 This is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, because he abides with you, and he will be in you"

NOW remember this is the same verse

New Living Translations proves you wrong AGAIN

15 "If you love me, obey my commandments. 16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor, who will never leave you. 17 He is the Holy Spirit, who leads into all truth. The world at large cannot receive him, because it isn't looking for him and doesn't recognize him. But you do, because he lives with you now and later will be in you"

Dear Lady,

Whichever translation you choose, the word another is the key word. All translators have faithfully kept this word "another". If it had to be the spirit or the holy spirit or the Holy Spirit, there would not have been the word another. The word, "another" clearly distinguishes this new counselor from the other Holy Spirit which was never addressed before as a Counselor.

I am not talking about the word Comforter, Advocate, Solicitor and Spirit. I am pointing out the word another which means it had to be somebodyelse. Therefore, the Holy Spirit cannot be the same. It had to be another spirit.

That is exactly what the good book says. You have to agree with me that "another" does not refer to the "Holy Spirit" of God or the "Holy Spirit or the Holy Ghost" of trinity.

BMZ



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Quote BMZ Replybullet Posted: 19 December 2006 at 4:54pm

Israfil and Hanan,

Yes, I agree this is going nowhere and it has become pointless to argue.

Israfil, I still feel bad about the mistake I made. Sorry about that.

Thanks & Salaam Alaikum

BMZ

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Quote ChristianLady Replybullet Posted: 19 December 2006 at 5:26pm

are you illiterate BMZSP?

6 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor, who will never leave you. 17 He is the Holy Spirit,

very clear HE WILL GIVE YOU ANOTHER counselor who will NEVER leave you. HE IS the Holy SPIRIT. sounds like you need to go back to school and learn to read.

Christian Lady
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Quote ChristianLady Replybullet Posted: 19 December 2006 at 5:32pm

I think my time on here is coming to an end for now. I may come back some time in the future. I can see that you people are young and do not know the Bible very well. So I will move on to people who know how to debate. Seems i have proven alot and not one thing has been proven about mohammed. By the way, I am 47 and I have been to Bible College and I have a Masters In Bible. I think it is you people that need to learn the Bible and not by your imam but by ones who know the Bible. The Bible is truth and one day I pray you have eyes to see truth and not have the blinders on.

I will be praying for each one of you.

Christian Lady
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Quote Hanan Replybullet Posted: 19 December 2006 at 6:21pm

Hold fast to the rope of Allah, and be not divided



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