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Interfaith Dialogue
 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : Religion - Islam : Interfaith Dialogue
Message Icon Topic: Jesus Christ did not die for our sins. Post Reply Post New Topic
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amah
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Quote amah Replybullet Posted: 17 December 2006 at 10:22pm

Greeting Lady,

Originally posted by ChristianLady

The Bible is not to you. The Bible is only written to jews and christians. So I am not sure how you can even interpret it since we as christians believe only the Holy Spirit which is the comforter can teach us.

You must understand this simple thing that the Bible came for ALL the people for "that time". Muslims believe in the Bible (original ofcourse), its an important part of our faith-   belief in Allah's Books.

I am here just to correspond. I like to correspond with others who believe different then me. I find it interesting how I can see things that you and others cannot. I am not against you or anyone on here and I find it an honor to have been allowed on here. I hope you do not take me as a threat of wanting to convert you or anything because that truly is not my goal.

Why do go on and on with this statement? Has anyone here told you that we think you are here to convert us?

I am just here to talk back and forth as we have been. I have my little one here now so must go for now. Take care

 

Allah is Sufficient as a Walee (Protector) and Allah is Sufficient as a Naseer (Helper).
(Surah An-Nisa, Chapter #4, Verse #45)
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Hanan
 
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Quote Hanan Replybullet Posted: 18 December 2006 at 1:24am

Hold fast to the rope of Allah, and be not divided



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BMZ
 
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Quote BMZ Replybullet Posted: 18 December 2006 at 5:55am

Lady,

From you: "The Bible is not to you. The Bible is only written to jews and christians. So I am not sure how you can even interpret it since we as christians believe only the Holy Spirit which is the comforter can teach us."

Let's spot the difference between the two:

Genesis 1 of the Jews: "......and the spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters"

Genesis 1 of the Christians (OT): ".......and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters."

Lady, can you tell us the difference between the two? I will tell you how I interpret it.

Arabic and Aramaic, the two languages, one spoken by Muhammad and the other spoken by Jesus, came from Hebrew. Knowing Arabic puts us at an advantage in understanding the true intent and meanings of the figurative language.

In the case of above, note that the Jews just referred to "the spirit of God" while the Church fathers changed it to "The Spirit of God". Now, the Spirit of God is not the Holy Spirit, the first or the third entity of the trinity. Simply put, both the verses mean "God was watching the earth being formed or the formation of earth."

What is your understanding about that?

BMZ

 

 

 

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Quote ChristianLady Replybullet Posted: 18 December 2006 at 5:56am

Andalus

First of all, the jews did not recoginize Jesus because they were looking for a King not someone who was humble and meek and who would serve them. They missed it and the Gentiles realized who Jesus was. If their belief is in more line with yours as you claim how come even they did not see mohammed as a prophet? They even said he wasn't and agree with the christians.

amah
There is no original Bible there were manuscripts that they had. And as far as my statement (you said i keep going on and on about if you go back I said it 2 times) stop making it look like i said it thousands of times. I wanted to make it clear thats all. And if you go back and read someone was questioning why I was really here. I was responding to them.

Hanan

If the Bible was to you. You would understand it like 2.6 billion christians do in the world. Yes we as christians have some differences but christians do believe in the death and resurrection of Jesus and they do believe there is One God and not 3 as many muslims claim we believe. Where did i ever state non christians or Muslims cannot read the Bible? Never did I say that. I said the Bible is not to you. Meaning at this time you are not able to understand the Bible because you have not the Holy Spirit to interpret the Bible. I never said you could not sit down and read it in fact I have said for you to do that. There is a reason Jesus spoke in parables. Because the parables would be understood by those who had the Holy Spirit but to those who did not they were confused by the parables.

I totally agree with you can fake speaking in tongues. But God also knows you can do this and He will deal with those who play a game with it. Being filled with the Holy Spirit means that we live a life worthy to be called christians. It has nothing to do with tongues. Tongues and being spirit filled are 2 different things. Yes I am being truthful with you when I say I am not here to convert others. It is not me that does the converting but the Holy Spirit is what draws men NOT me. Bringing people to christianity is not about good deeds or bad deeds. Not sure who told you that. I will not be any closer to God because i brought someone to christianity so not sure who told you that.

Hanan and thats sad that some christians would do that. You are not second class. I have never thought that of you or anyone. Priest and ministers lie when they say God hates muslims because God loves all people. Did I come across as hating you or anyone? I am sorry you feel the way you do or even question me but I do not recall one time I came across as hating you or anyone here. I love all people as Jesus commanded me to love my neighbor as myself.

Easy to refute arguments? You have not answered one of my arguments you avoid them. I am still waiting for you to show me from my Bible where God said in his own words that mohammed was a prophet sent by God. I think you know I am right as far as mohammed was never mentioned in my Bible and now you think I am like all the other christians you have come across. I am nothing like them. I am a very loving and kind person. I have been around muslims here in real life. I have sat down with muslims over coffee and even dinner and talked and walked away glad I have done this. I would sit down with you in real life if we lived closer just to talk. I am tired of all the hate christians are spewing towards others it is not right and Jesus would have never done it. Some christians put others to shame. My faith has people in it just like islam does that makes their religion look bad. I know many christians who are tolerant of other religions and have respect. You can disagree and still have tolerance for people. Hanan and I am sorry you have had bad experiences with christians but please do not put us all in the same mold we are not all the same.

Ok today I have an eye appointment so everyone have a good day

Christian Lady
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Angel
 
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Quote Angel Replybullet Posted: 18 December 2006 at 6:03am
Originally posted by ChristianLady

David

I do not drink alcohol so no spiked eggnog for me. I believe the christians and jews are the only ones that can understand the Bible cause they have the Holy Spirit to reveal it to them. David show me where the Bible says it is for everyone. See I like proof when someone says something about my Holy Book. I like to see the proof for myself not just believe someone cause they say it

hmmm..........I think your belief here is your own personal belief not Christianity's.

Perhaps also you can give or show where the bible says that its only for Jews and Christians?

I am on the side and agree with David that the bible is for everyone. That God is for everyone, not just for a select few. To say that the christians and jews are the only ones that can understand the Bible cause they have the Holy Spirit to reveal it to them, is unreasonable.

Anybody can learn and study and understand it. Some may agree wholeheartly therefor may become christian or some may partially agree or some may not agree but understand it. If one does not agree it does not mean that person does not understand, it simple means they just don't agree or believe it. Who are you (and i mean not you personally) to say they did not have the help of the holy spirit to reveal the understanding ?

~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~
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Quote BMZ Replybullet Posted: 18 December 2006 at 6:12am

Angel,

Well-said.

Perhaps the holy spirit of God inspires me more to understand better, write better and explain well.

BMZ

ps: I know, I know about the self-praise.

 

 

 

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Quote ChristianLady Replybullet Posted: 18 December 2006 at 6:24am

Angel

Many born again christians do not drink alcohol because the bible clearly says do not even show the experience of you doing evil. And if you had read my statement I never said it was not for people to read (meaning the Bible). But they will never understand it because it is the Holy SPirit that gives the guidance. Read John 14 about the comforter and why it was coming. It even states you will not understand. I love how people twist what I say in here. Angel they are not christians the holy spirit was to the christians and the bible makes that very clear.

16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

NOW read the 17th verse it says very clearly THE WORLD cannot recieve because it seeth him NOT. neither Knoweth him BUT YE KNOW HIM for he dwelleth with you and shall be IN you. This was written to the christians. The christians know the Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit dwells within the christian and it even says THE WORLD Cannot recieve him, because the Holy spirit is just that a SPIRIT and know one can see a Spirit. Those who are not christians are blinded to truth until they recieve Jesus as their Lord and Savior and the Holy Spirit comes to dwell within them.

Now I am done for the day. See everyone maybe tonight. Have a great day

Christian Lady
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Quote BMZ Replybullet Posted: 18 December 2006 at 6:32am

Lady,

We understand you. 

"There is a reason Jesus spoke in parables. Because the parables would be understood by those who had the Holy Spirit but to those who did not they were confused by the parables."

Jesus always spoke in parables when he was in public. He was always followed, teased and tested by Sadducees and Pharisees, who shew people that they had the utmost knowledge of Scriptures and Jesus used to demolish them by speaking in parables or figurative language.

When Jesus spoke in parables, not even a single disciple of his own, could understand anything at all and Jesus had to explain to them in private. Jesus handled the arrogant Sadducees, Pharisees and other nasty teachers of the Jews with an arrogance and aggressiveness, they deserved. It means that the Holy Spirit never guided his disciples. Jesus was the one who taught and guided them. To say that the Holy Spirit, the Christian Comforter taught them or guided them is, therefore not correct.

Even though the Doubting Thomas had also received the "Holy Spirit" or the "Comforter", he still doubted Jesus. It means his heart was never filled with the Holy Spirit or the Christian Comforter.

BMZ  



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