IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum: Jesus Christ did not die for our sins.

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ChristianLady

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Posted: 18 December 2006 at 12:58pm

Hayfa,

Who said I NEW YOUR HEART? Now you are assuming things. I am saying to you that you cannot understand the Bible because you are not born again as Jesus commanded in John 3 that in order to go to heaven one must be born again spiritually.And it is the Holy Spirit that is a christians teacher NOT anyone else. No it is not arrogance because I did not say that the Bible did. So you have a problem with the Bible NOT me.

I am done for the night. I will be back tommorrow if I have time and answer the rest of the post.

Christian Lady

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BMZ

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Posted: 18 December 2006 at 4:40pm

Lady,

In order to be able to read and understand any book, one only needs a good command of the language in which the book was written. One does not need any spirit or a holy spirit or "The Holy Spirit" to be able to read and understand a book.

Holy Spirit is not an entity or a person. Holy Spirit is the Force or the Power of God, the Lord Almighty. It is like God's radio waves emanating and spreading through the Universe.

In response to a teasing question by his adversaries, Jesus promptly quoted from the Jewish Holy Scriptures, when he said,"You shall worship only the Lord Almighty God with all your hearts, all your minds and all your souls." and he aslo said,"Repent", meaning ask for God's Forgiveness and turn to God.

Do I need any spirit to make me understand that simple message? I already understood it so easily and so do millions.

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Israfil

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Posted: 18 December 2006 at 6:07pm

Thanks, my humble and polite brother Israfil.

You are right in saying that. For example, when God finds a soul searching God or in search of God, God intervenes and guides him/her.

The person receives God in his heart and mind and one cay say that God dwells and resides in the human mind and heart. Sometimes people tend to take figuratives to mean that God physically dwells in the hearts or minds or the body of humans.

The Hindoo philosophers have more on this. They say,"Kill or drive the Satan out from your minds, the Satan who resides in you. And later, you will find that God starts dwelling in you."

Best Regards & Salaam Alaikum

BMZ

Accidentally edited by BMZ. My sincere apologies to Israfil.

Edited by bmzsp

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BMZ

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Posted: 18 December 2006 at 8:42pm

Israfil,

My sincere apologies. I made a mistake and instead of clicking the reply button, accidently edited your post.

A thousand apologies. Hope you will forgive me for this blunder. I am so sorry.

Best Regards

BMZ

Edited by bmzsp

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ChristianLady

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Posted: 19 December 2006 at 4:16am

Good morning Everyone,

As far as Ishmael and Isaac they are half brothers and I am not going to get into any more about them. They will never be full brothers whether they have the same father or not for the very fact they have different moms. I am tired of going in circles about this. Ishmael was not an Israelite and never will be due to his mother.

And as far as the HOLY SPIRIT it is the teacher of the christians and that is what you are not understanding. We believe the comforter is our teacher (Holy Spirit) and the verse proved that the world cannot accept or understand it. Angel you asked about the (world) in that verse and why that verse excludes the christians it does not include christians because it was directed to the christians.That verse was saying only the christians can understand the Holy Spirit because the christians ACCEPT the Holy Spirit where all other religions do NOT. The word christian means CHRIST like. And you do need the Holy Spirit to read the Bible and understand it. You can read it all day long till the cows come home and you have proven over and over you can take it out of context. The Bible is understood when you're blinders are taken off and you accept Jesus as the your savior and Lord (1 John 1:9-10) I have meant many people who have come to christianity and that have said we tried to understand the Bible but when we became christians it was a light bulb went off and it all made sense. The Holy Spirit is " the light bulb" who then shows the person what it really means.

Have a good day I am going to work today. No one still has proven Mohammed as a prophet or Islam as the true religion to me and yes I have been to different parts of the forum. I believe the Bible and until I see in my Bible where Jesus spoke of an ishmaelite prophet cause that is actually where mohammed came out of the ishmaelites NOT the Israelites. They are 2 different groups of people. I will stick to what Deut 17 says about the prophets not you're interpretation of it since you do NOT have the Holy Spirit to guide you.

I have my children home starting Friday due to christmas holiday and they will be around home till after the first of year and I may not be able to come on everyday. So if you do not see me around this is why. Have a great day

Christian Lady

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BMZ

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Posted: 19 December 2006 at 5:01am

Lady,

This is a very sincere and serious response, so please pay attention and comment line by line otherwise I will not entertain you again.

From you, Mi'Lady: "As far as Ishmael and Isaac they are half brothers and I am not going to get into any more about them. They will never be full brothers whether they have the same father or not for the very fact they have different moms. I am tired of going in circles about this. Ishmael was not an Israelite and never will be due to his mother."

Okay, Okay, Okay! Let us put this way. Sarah was the step-mother of Ismaeel and Hagar was the step-mother of Issac. Issac was the step-son of Hagar and Ismaeel was the step-son of Sarah. Issac was Ismaeel's step-brother and Ismaeel ws Issac's step-elder-brother. Abraham, Ismaeel, Issac were NOT Israelites. However, Ismaeel was strictly an Abrahamite.

Only Hagar's step-grandson Jacob got the title of Israel and only he produced the Israelites, though he himself and his real brother Essau were also not Israelites.

from you Mi'Lady: "And as far as the HOLY SPIRIT it is the teacher of the christians and that is what you are not understanding. We believe the comforter is our teacher (Holy Spirit) and the verse proved that the world cannot accept or understand it."

I am not prepared to accept that the Holy Spirit and the Comforter are same as that is incorrect and you should not say that because the Bible doesn't say so.

According to Genesis, the Holy Spirit was there hovering over the waters millions of years before Jesus, The Holy Spirit was there when it led Jesus into the Desert for getting him tempted by the Devil and vanished from him, when he needed it the most.

The "Holy Spirit" was nothing new to be sent. It had been sent to many, many times before. Jesus himself is on record saying that if he did not go, the Comforter could not come. He had to go and make way for him. Hence, the Comforter had to be somebodyelse. What was the need to change the name of the "Holy Spirit", which was known since creation, as told by Genesis 1.

I know how Jesus is declared to be the Messiah, the King Messiah, the Word, the Son of God, the Alpha & the Omega, the light, the Annointed, the lamb, the prophet and finally the God.

That cannot be done with the "Holy Spirit" as the Jews had it before countless times.

I am going to 17th Floor to discuss the Bible with Evangelists.

BMZ

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ChristianLady

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Posted: 19 December 2006 at 7:08am

Bmzsp

I am at work so can not respond but to one comment you made. I will respond more tonight

You made the comment I am not prepared to accept that the Holy Spirit and the Comforter are same as that is incorrect and you should not say that because the Bible doesn't say so.

The Bible does SAY the comforter is the Holy Spirit

John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

The Bible proves the Comforter is the HOLY GHOST/HOLY SPIRIT same thing. So you have just proved you do not read nor understand the Bible. Thanks for proving my point once again.

Have a wonderful day

Christian Lady

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BMZ

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Posted: 19 December 2006 at 8:54am

Lady,

From you: "The Bible does SAY the comforter is the Holy Spirit

John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

The Bible proves the Comforter is the HOLY GHOST/HOLY SPIRIT same thing. So you have just proved you do not read nor understand the Bible. Thanks for proving my point once again."

Lady, I don't blame you. I knew you would come to this. But you forgot that John made a blunder when he spoke of somethingelse and you did not understand what is written in the Bible and I am sure that you did not read this or perhaps, the Holy Spirit did not guide you to read this:

John 14: 15"If you love me, you will obey what I command. 16IAnd I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever-17 the Spirit of Truth."

Now, if you read and understand English language well, you will know in a jiffy that this is not the same Comforter or Counselor. This another is another Counselor or another Comforter.

Then John forgot about the Spirit of truth that he wrote earlier, and wrote: 26But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the father will send in my name, will teach you all things and remind you of everything I have said to you." By the way, throughout the Bible, we see that the Holy Spirit never taught anyone anything. It either hovered or dived.

Thus the key word is another Counselor or shall we say another Comforter.

Now, please quote me what Matthew, Mark and Luke said about above matter.

Good Night

BMZ

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Topic: Jesus Christ did not die for our sins.
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Author	Message
ChristianLady Groupie Joined: 08 December 2006 Online Status: Offline Posts: 50	Posted: 18 December 2006 at 12:58pm
	Hayfa, Who said I NEW YOUR HEART? Now you are assuming things. I am saying to you that you cannot understand the Bible because you are not born again as Jesus commanded in John 3 that in order to go to heaven one must be born again spiritually.And it is the Holy Spirit that is a christians teacher NOT anyone else. No it is not arrogance because I did not say that the Bible did. So you have a problem with the Bible NOT me. I am done for the night. I will be back tommorrow if I have time and answer the rest of the post.
	Christian Lady
	IP Logged

BMZ Moderator Group Joined: 03 April 2006 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1852	Posted: 18 December 2006 at 4:40pm
	Lady, In order to be able to read and understand any book, one only needs a good command of the language in which the book was written. One does not need any spirit or a holy spirit or "The Holy Spirit" to be able to read and understand a book. Holy Spirit is not an entity or a person. Holy Spirit is the Force or the Power of God, the Lord Almighty. It is like God's radio waves emanating and spreading through the Universe. In response to a teasing question by his adversaries, Jesus promptly quoted from the Jewish Holy Scriptures, when he said,"You shall worship only the Lord Almighty God with all your hearts, all your minds and all your souls." and he aslo said,"Repent", meaning ask for God's Forgiveness and turn to God. Do I need any spirit to make me understand that simple message? I already understood it so easily and so do millions.
	IP Logged

Israfil Senior Member Joined: 08 September 2003 Online Status: Offline Posts: 3984	Posted: 18 December 2006 at 6:07pm
	Thanks, my humble and polite brother Israfil. You are right in saying that. For example, when God finds a soul searching God or in search of God, God intervenes and guides him/her. The person receives God in his heart and mind and one cay say that God dwells and resides in the human mind and heart. Sometimes people tend to take figuratives to mean that God physically dwells in the hearts or minds or the body of humans. The Hindoo philosophers have more on this. They say,"Kill or drive the Satan out from your minds, the Satan who resides in you. And later, you will find that God starts dwelling in you." Best Regards & Salaam Alaikum BMZ Accidentally edited by BMZ. My sincere apologies to Israfil. Edited by bmzsp
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BMZ Moderator Group Joined: 03 April 2006 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1852	Posted: 18 December 2006 at 8:42pm
	Israfil, My sincere apologies. I made a mistake and instead of clicking the reply button, accidently edited your post. A thousand apologies. Hope you will forgive me for this blunder. I am so sorry. Best Regards BMZ Edited by bmzsp
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ChristianLady Groupie Joined: 08 December 2006 Online Status: Offline Posts: 50	Posted: 19 December 2006 at 4:16am
	Good morning Everyone, As far as Ishmael and Isaac they are half brothers and I am not going to get into any more about them. They will never be full brothers whether they have the same father or not for the very fact they have different moms. I am tired of going in circles about this. Ishmael was not an Israelite and never will be due to his mother. And as far as the HOLY SPIRIT it is the teacher of the christians and that is what you are not understanding. We believe the comforter is our teacher (Holy Spirit) and the verse proved that the world cannot accept or understand it. Angel you asked about the (world) in that verse and why that verse excludes the christians it does not include christians because it was directed to the christians.That verse was saying only the christians can understand the Holy Spirit because the christians ACCEPT the Holy Spirit where all other religions do NOT. The word christian means CHRIST like. And you do need the Holy Spirit to read the Bible and understand it. You can read it all day long till the cows come home and you have proven over and over you can take it out of context. The Bible is understood when you're blinders are taken off and you accept Jesus as the your savior and Lord (1 John 1:9-10) I have meant many people who have come to christianity and that have said we tried to understand the Bible but when we became christians it was a light bulb went off and it all made sense. The Holy Spirit is " the light bulb" who then shows the person what it really means. Have a good day I am going to work today. No one still has proven Mohammed as a prophet or Islam as the true religion to me and yes I have been to different parts of the forum. I believe the Bible and until I see in my Bible where Jesus spoke of an ishmaelite prophet cause that is actually where mohammed came out of the ishmaelites NOT the Israelites. They are 2 different groups of people. I will stick to what Deut 17 says about the prophets not you're interpretation of it since you do NOT have the Holy Spirit to guide you. I have my children home starting Friday due to christmas holiday and they will be around home till after the first of year and I may not be able to come on everyday. So if you do not see me around this is why. Have a great day
	Christian Lady
	IP Logged

BMZ Moderator Group Joined: 03 April 2006 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1852	Posted: 19 December 2006 at 5:01am
	Lady, This is a very sincere and serious response, so please pay attention and comment line by line otherwise I will not entertain you again. From you, Mi'Lady: "As far as Ishmael and Isaac they are half brothers and I am not going to get into any more about them. They will never be full brothers whether they have the same father or not for the very fact they have different moms. I am tired of going in circles about this. Ishmael was not an Israelite and never will be due to his mother." Okay, Okay, Okay! Let us put this way. Sarah was the step-mother of Ismaeel and Hagar was the step-mother of Issac. Issac was the step-son of Hagar and Ismaeel was the step-son of Sarah. Issac was Ismaeel's step-brother and Ismaeel ws Issac's step-elder-brother. Abraham, Ismaeel, Issac were NOT Israelites. However, Ismaeel was strictly an Abrahamite. Only Hagar's step-grandson Jacob got the title of Israel and only he produced the Israelites, though he himself and his real brother Essau were also not Israelites. from you Mi'Lady: "And as far as the HOLY SPIRIT it is the teacher of the christians and that is what you are not understanding. We believe the comforter is our teacher (Holy Spirit) and the verse proved that the world cannot accept or understand it." I am not prepared to accept that the Holy Spirit and the Comforter are same as that is incorrect and you should not say that because the Bible doesn't say so. According to Genesis, the Holy Spirit was there hovering over the waters millions of years before Jesus, The Holy Spirit was there when it led Jesus into the Desert for getting him tempted by the Devil and vanished from him, when he needed it the most. The "Holy Spirit" was nothing new to be sent. It had been sent to many, many times before. Jesus himself is on record saying that if he did not go, the Comforter could not come. He had to go and make way for him. Hence, the Comforter had to be somebodyelse. What was the need to change the name of the "Holy Spirit", which was known since creation, as told by Genesis 1. I know how Jesus is declared to be the Messiah, the King Messiah, the Word, the Son of God, the Alpha & the Omega, the light, the Annointed, the lamb, the prophet and finally the God. That cannot be done with the "Holy Spirit" as the Jews had it before countless times. I am going to 17th Floor to discuss the Bible with Evangelists. BMZ
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ChristianLady Groupie Joined: 08 December 2006 Online Status: Offline Posts: 50	Posted: 19 December 2006 at 7:08am
	Bmzsp I am at work so can not respond but to one comment you made. I will respond more tonight You made the comment I am not prepared to accept that the Holy Spirit and the Comforter are same as that is incorrect and you should not say that because the Bible doesn't say so. The Bible does SAY the comforter is the Holy Spirit John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. The Bible proves the Comforter is the HOLY GHOST/HOLY SPIRIT same thing. So you have just proved you do not read nor understand the Bible. Thanks for proving my point once again. Have a wonderful day
	Christian Lady
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BMZ Moderator Group Joined: 03 April 2006 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1852	Posted: 19 December 2006 at 8:54am
	Lady, From you: "The Bible does SAY the comforter is the Holy Spirit John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. The Bible proves the Comforter is the HOLY GHOST/HOLY SPIRIT same thing. So you have just proved you do not read nor understand the Bible. Thanks for proving my point once again." Lady, I don't blame you. I knew you would come to this. But you forgot that John made a blunder when he spoke of somethingelse and you did not understand what is written in the Bible and I am sure that you did not read this or perhaps, the Holy Spirit did not guide you to read this: John 14: 15"If you love me, you will obey what I command. 16IAnd I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever-17 the Spirit of Truth." Now, if you read and understand English language well, you will know in a jiffy that this is not the same Comforter or Counselor. This another is another Counselor or another Comforter. Then John forgot about the Spirit of truth that he wrote earlier, and wrote: 26But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the father will send in my name, will teach you all things and remind you of everything I have said to you." By the way, throughout the Bible, we see that the Holy Spirit never taught anyone anything. It either hovered or dived. Thus the key word is another Counselor or shall we say another Comforter. Now, please quote me what Matthew, Mark and Luke said about above matter. Good Night BMZ
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