Active TopicsActive Topics  Display List of Forum MembersMemberlist  CalendarCalendar  Search The ForumSearch  HelpHelp
  RegisterRegister  LoginLogin  Old ForumOld Forum  Twitter  Facebook
Advertisement:
         

Prophets - Jesus
 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : Religion - Islam : Prophets - Jesus
Message Icon Topic: Deuteronomy 18:15 Jesus Prediction??? Post Reply Post New Topic
<< Prev Page  of 5
Author Message
robin
 
Senior Member
Senior  Member


Joined: 17 May 2008
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 595
Quote robin Replybullet Posted: 13 August 2008 at 10:11am
Originally posted by minuteman

It therefore transpires that there will be a prophet after Jesus who will be visited by the holy spirit.That is excatly what happened in the case of Muhammad. He was visited by the angel Gabriel, who is called the holy spirit in the Quran. That angel had been bringing messages before to other prophets. So there is no complication and we can admit that the prophet to come after Jesus is Muhammad.

 
Not according to the Prophet Jesus:-
 
John 14:6
Jesus said to him: "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
 
Thus nothing needs to be added to the Bible as it has all the sayings of God's prophet Jesus!
 
Jesus did not fix a time factor to the above statement!
 


Edited by robin - 13 August 2008 at 10:12am
IP IP Logged
robin
 
Senior Member
Senior  Member


Joined: 17 May 2008
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 595
Quote robin Replybullet Posted: 06 September 2008 at 11:30am
Originally posted by mariyah

[QUOTE=Katherine] Yes, Deut 18 is referring to the Messiah, eventually.  A Jew would tell you that Deut. 18 speaks of all prophets who came after Moses, and that these prophets were Jewish and they would tell you that it couldn't possibly be Muhammad who was not a Jew.

Brethern could refer to any tribe of Israel.  Ishmael's group were really step-brethern.

"The Levitical priests, that is, all the tribe of Levi, shall have no portion or inheritance with Israel ... they shall have no inheritance among their brethren".  Deuteronomy 18.1-2.

Therefore the only logical interpretation of Deuteronomy 18.18 can be: "I will raise up for them (that is, the tribe of Levi) a prophet like you from among their brethren (that is, one of the other tribes of Israel)". Indeed throughout the Old Testament we often find the expression "their brethren" meaning the remaining tribes of Israel as distinct from the tribe specifically referred to. Look at this verse as an example:

But the children of Benjamin would not listen to the voice of their brethren, the children of Israel.  Judges 20.13

Here "their brethren" is specifically stated to be the other tribes of Israel as distinct from the tribe of Benjamin. In Deuteronomy 18.18, therefore, "their brethren" clearly means the brethren in Israel of the tribe of Levi.  Again in Numbers 8.26 the tribe of Levi is commanded to minister to "their brethren", that is, the remaining tribes of Israel.  In 2 Kings 24.12 the tribe of Judah is distinguished from "their brethren", once again the remaining tribes of Israel. (Further scriptures proving the point are Judges 21.22, 2 Samuel 2.26, 2 Kings 23.9, 1 Chronicles 12.32, 2 Chronicles 28.15, Nehemiah 5.1 and others).

In Deuteronomy 17.15 we read that Moses on one occasion said to the Israelites "One from among your brethren you shall set as king over you; you may not put a foreigner over you, who is not your brother". Only an Israelite could be appointed king of Israel - "one from among your brethren" - no foreigner, be he Ishmaelite, Edomite or whoever he may be, could be made King of Israel because he was not one of "their brethren", that is, a member of one of the tribes of Israel.

Since all of the tribes of Israel are called "brethern" a Muslim would have to come up with a reason why they were excluded, based on facts.

Further than this, the promise came through Isaac and not Ishmael.

In addition the New Testament identifies the prophet like Moses as Jesus Christ.

 
 
this is what the Torah really says:

Devarim - Deuteronomy

Chapter 18


1 The priests the Levites, even all the tribe of Levi, shall have no portion nor inheritance with Israel; they shall eat the offerings of HaShem made by fire, and His inheritance.

2 And they shall have no inheritance among their brethren; HaShem is their inheritance, as He hath spoken unto them.

3 And this shall be the priests' due from the people, from them that offer a sacrifice, whether it be ox or sheep, that they shall give unto the priest the shoulder, and the two cheeks, and the maw.

4 The first-fruits of thy corn, of thy wine, and of thine oil, and the first of the fleece of thy sheep, shalt thou give him.

5 For HaShem thy G-d hath chosen him out of all thy tribes, to stand to minister in the name of HaShem, him and his sons for ever.

6 And if a Levite come from any of thy gates out of all Israel, where he sojourneth, and come with all the desire of his soul unto the place which HaShem shall choose;

7 then he shall minister in the name of HaShem his G-d, as all his brethren the Levites do, who stand there before HaShem.

8 They shall have like portions to eat, beside that which is his due according to the fathers' houses.

9 When thou art come into the land which HaShem thy G-d giveth thee, thou shalt not learn to do after the abominations of those nations.

10 There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, one that useth divination, a soothsayer, or an enchanter, or a sorcerer,

11 or a charmer, or one that consulteth a ghost or a familiar spirit, or a necromancer.

12 For whosoever doeth these things is an abomination unto HaShem; and because of these abominations HaShem thy G-d is driving them out from before thee.

13 Thou shalt be whole-hearted with HaShem thy G-d.

14 For these nations, that thou art to dispossess, hearken unto soothsayers, and unto diviners; but as for thee, HaShem thy G-d hath not suffered thee so to do.

15 A prophet will HaShem thy G-d raise up unto thee, from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;

16 according to all that thou didst desire of HaShem thy G-d in Horeb in the day of the assembly, saying: 'Let me not hear again the voice of HaShem my G-d, neither let me see this great fire any more, that I die not.'

17 And HaShem said unto me: 'They have well said that which they have spoken.

18 I will raise them up a prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee; and I will put My words in his mouth, and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.

19 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto My words which he shall speak in My name, I will require it of him.

20 But the prophet, that shall speak a word presumptuously in My name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, that same prophet shall die.'

21 And if thou say in thy heart: 'How shall we know the word which HaShem hath not spoken?'

22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of HaShem, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which HaShem hath not spoken; the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously, thou shalt not be afraid of him

 
 

Islam teaches that Deuteronomy 18:15 & 18 are talking of the coming of Mohamed.  Will close look show this  to be the case?

 

DEUTERONOMY CH. 18: 15 & 18,  WITH THE HEBREW WORDS:-

 

1899 Douay-Reims Bible Deut 18:15

The Lord thy God will raise up to thee a PROPHET of thy nation and of thy brethren* like unto me: him thou shalt hear:

*The 'Tanakh' (Torah) reads "your own people."

 

Contemporary English Version Deut 18:15

Instead, he will choose one of your own people to be a prophet just like me, and you must do what that prophet says.

 

K.J.V. Deut 18:15

The LORD3068 thy God430 will raise up6965 unto thee a Prophet5030 from the midst4480, 7130 of thee, of thy brethren,4480, 251 like unto me;3644 unto413 him ye shall hearken;8085

 

Hebrew Words underlined:-

J. Strong’s Heb. #4480  נּי    מנּי    מן  min  minnîy  minnêy  min, min-nee', min-nay'

For H4482; properly a part of; hence (prepositionally), from or out of in many senses: - above, after, among, at, because of, by (reason of), from (among), in, X neither, X nor, (out) of, over, since, X then, through, X whether, with.

 

J. Strong’s Heb. #251  אח  'âch  awkh

A primitive word; a brother (used in the widest sense of literal relationship and metaphorical affinity or resemblance (like H1)): - another, brother (-ly), kindred, like, other. Compare also the proper names beginning with “Ah-” or “Ahi-”.

 

 

1899 Douay-Reims Bible Deut 18:18

 I will raise them up a prophet out of the midst of their brethren* like to thee: and I will put my words in his mouth, and he shall speak to them all that I shall command him.

*The 'Tanakh' (Torah) reads "thier own people."  

 

Contemporary English Version  Deut 18:18

 So when I want to speak to them, I will choose one of them to be a prophet like you. I will give my message to that prophet, who will tell the people exactly what I have said.

 

K.J.V. Deut 18:18

I will raise them up6965 a Prophet5030 from among4480, 7130 their brethren,251 like unto thee,3644 and will put5414 my words1697 in his mouth;6310 and he shall speak1696 unto413 them (853) all3605 that834 I shall command6680 him.

 

‘The Dead Sea Scrolls Bible’ - The oldest know Bible translated for the first time into English. Translated and with commentary by Martin Abegg Jr., Peter Flint & Eugene Ulrich page 172; Deuteronomy 18:18
“I will raise for them a prophet like you from among their COUNTRYMEN; I will put my words* in his mouth, and he will speak to them all that I command him.”
*Thus Jesus is called “The Word” in John 1:1-2.

 

Hebrew Word underlined:-

J. Strong’s Heb. #251  אח 'ach  awkh

A primitive word; a brother (used in the widest sense of literal relationship and metaphorical affinity or resemblance (like H1)): - another, brother (-ly), kindred, like, other. Compare also the proper names beginning with “Ah-” or “Ahi-”.

 

 Thus showing that God's prophet like Moses was an Israelite!

 

K.J.V. Deuteronomy 18:14-18

Setting and Context.

 

Vs. 14  For these nations, which thou shalt possess, hearkened unto observers of times, and unto diviners: but as for thee, the LORD thy God hath not suffered thee so to do.

 

In verse 14 God is talking about the “nations,” those who are non Israelites (Gentiles), then turn his attention back to the Israelites when he says “which thou ...” and “for thee ...” as he is talking about giving his people the ‘promised land’ etc. and they should not copy the ways of the people that live there!

 

Vs. 15  The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;

 

Here in verse 15 with his, that is God’s attention, on the Israelites or Moses people, called “thy brethren” or ‘your brothers’ who he, Moses, is in the “midst of” or ‘among.’   God here is speaking in the 2nd person about the people of Moses, not others or “these nations” of verse 14.  So the subject of the verse is “a prophet” that God will “raise up” from the nation that Moses belongs to, the Israelites.

 

Vs. 16  According to all that thou desiredst of the LORD thy God in Horeb in the day of the assembly, saying, Let me not hear again the voice of the LORD my God, neither let me see this great fire any more, that I die not.  See Exodus 20:18 below.

 

In verse 16 where is “Horeb” and who is assembled there?   Verse 16 shows that God continues talking of the Israelite nation as he speaks to, via Moses, in “Horeb in the day of the assembly saying ... .”   This is the nation of Israel at Mt Sinai in the district of Horeb:-

 

“Horeb”  - “The mountain of the true God,” apparently the same as Mount Sinai.   See 1 Kings 19:8; and Exodus 33:6.   Generally, though, Horeb seems to designate the mountainous region around Mount Sinai, otherwise called the Wilderness of Sinai.—Deut. 1:6, 19; 4:10, 15; 5:2; 9:8; 18:16; 29:1; 1 Kings 8:9; 2 Chron. 5:10; Ps 106:19; Malachi 4:4; compare Exodus 3:1, 2; Acts 7:30. 

 

Cross reference to show what Deut. 18:16 is referring to with Exodus 19:18, 20, 25; 20:18:-

18 And mount Sinai was altogether on a smoke, because the LORD descended upon it in fire: and the smoke thereof ascended as the smoke of a furnace, and the whole mount quaked greatly. ... 20  And the LORD came down upon mount Sinai, on the top of the mount: and the LORD called Moses up to the top of the mount; and Moses went up. ...

Exodus 19:25  So Moses went down unto the people, and spake unto them. ....  [Then the 10 Commandments where given] to ...

Exodus 20:18  And all the people saw the thunderings, and the lightnings, and the noise of the trumpet, and the mountain smoking: and when the people saw it, they removed, and stood afar off.   19  And they said unto Moses, Speak thou with us, and we will hear: but let not God speak with us, lest we die.

 

Vs. 17  And the LORD said unto me, They have well spoken that which they have spoken.

 

“They have spoken well” is said of the Israelites” in Horeb or Sinai cross reference to:-

Deut. 5:28  And the LORD heard the voice of your words, when ye spake unto me; and the LORD said unto me, I have heard the voice of the words of this people, which they have spoken unto thee: they have well said all that they have spoken.

Said at the time of:-

Deut. 5:1  And Moses called all Israel, and said unto them, Hear, O Israel, the statutes and judgments which I speak in your ears this day, that ye may learn them, and keep, and do them. ...

2  The LORD our God made a covenant with us in Horeb. ...

22  These words the LORD spake unto all your assembly in the mount out of the midst of the fire, of the cloud, and of the thick darkness, with a great voice: and he added no more. And he wrote them in two tables of stone, and delivered them unto me.

 

Vs. 18  I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.

 

The prophet to be raised up for “them” is speaking of the people mentioned is verse 17 which we have seen was the Israelites at Mt. Sinai in the district of Horeb.   Where God says “Their brethren,” here God speaking in the 3rd person, so in verse 18 he is therefore talking of the nation of Israel as this has been the objective of the discourse to explain the “Prophet” that God will “raise” from their “midst” that is from the Israelites is to be The promised One.  “Like unto thee” means that first this prophet is to come from the Israelite nation, thus one of his, Moses, “brethren” or ‘brothers.

 

As special "one" is spoken of in vs. 19 says Note grammar in brackets:-

Deuteronomy 18:19
“And it must occur that the man who will not listen to my words that he* (pronoun; singular; of one person) will speak in my name, I shall myself require an account from him.”

 

*”He” is of the “prophet,” also in the singular, mentioned in vs. 17.

 

 

Here is what the Gospel says to show that they support the above:-

 

 

Luke 7:16

"Now fear seized them all, and they began to glorify God, saying: “A great prophet"

 

Luke 24:19

"And he said to them: “What things?” They said to him: “The things concerning Jesus the Nazarene, who became a prophet powerful in work and word before God and all the people;"

 

John 1:45

"Philip found Nathanael and said to him: “We have found the one of whom Moses, in the Law, and the Prophets wrote, Jesus, the son of Joseph, from Nazareth.”"

 

John 6:14

"Hence when the men saw the signs he performed, they began to say: “This is for a certainty the prophet that was to come into the world.”"

IP IP Logged
honeto
 
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar

Joined: 20 March 2008
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2446
Quote honeto Replybullet Posted: 26 November 2008 at 6:54pm
 
Robin,
I don't think John 14:6 say anything a Muslim would have problem with. Because all prophets were the way to God.
Also, as the Bible predicts of a prophet (prophet Mohammed) Jesus is quoted to have said this in
1 John 4:
1Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 3but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God.
 
Hasan


Edited by honeto - 26 November 2008 at 6:56pm
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
IP IP Logged
robin
 
Senior Member
Senior  Member


Joined: 17 May 2008
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 595
Quote robin Replybullet Posted: 21 January 2009 at 2:18am
Originally posted by minuteman

  Katherine has tried to prove thatThe brethren are the Jews. But if we read the complete verse 18:18, we see that Jesus does not match Moses at all. Moses was a commander of his followers. Jesus never commanded any one.

 
That is not correct:-
 
Jesus said:-
Matthew 28:18
And Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying: "All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth.
 
Thus Jesus said:-
Matthew 28:19-20
Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded YOU. And, look! I am with YOU all the days until the conclusion of the system of things."
 
 
 
Jesus said
John 15:17-18
"These things I command YOU, that YOU love one another. 18 If the world hates YOU, YOU know that it has hated me before it hated YOU.


Edited by robin - 21 January 2009 at 2:19am
IP IP Logged
robin
 
Senior Member
Senior  Member


Joined: 17 May 2008
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 595
Quote robin Replybullet Posted: 21 January 2009 at 2:25am
Originally posted by honeto

 
Robin,
I don't think John 14:6 say anything a Muslim would have problem with. Because all prophets were the way to God.
Also, as the Bible predicts of a prophet (prophet Mohammed) Jesus is quoted to have said this in
1 John 4:
1Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 3but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God.
 
Hasan
 
YOU SHOULD READ ON to see what is really being said!!:-
 
1 John 4:15
"Whoever makes the confession that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, God remains in union with such one and he in union with God."
 
 
Muslims do not beleive Jesus "is the Son of God" so they are Not in "union" with God and God is Not in "union" with them!!
IP IP Logged
<< Prev Page  of 5
Post Reply Post New Topic
Printable version Printable version

Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

Disclaimer:
The opinions expressed herein contain positions and viewpoints that are not necessarily those of IslamiCity. This forum is offered to stimulate dialogue and discussion in our continuing mission of being an educational organization.
If there is any issue with any of the postings please email to icforum at islamicity.com or if you are a forum's member you can use the report button.

Note: The 99 names of Allah avatars are courtesy of www.arthafez.com

Advertisement:



Sponsored by:
Islamicity Membership Program:
IslamiCity Donation Program  http://www.islamicity.com/Donate
IslamiCity Arabic eLearning http://www.islamiCity.com/ArabAcademy
Complete Domain & Hosting Solutions www.icDomain.com
Home for Muslim Tunes www.icTunes.com
Islamic Video Collections www.islamiTV.com
IslamiCity Marriage Site www.icMarriage.com