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Islamic INTRAfaith Dialogue
 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : Religion - Islam : Islamic INTRAfaith Dialogue
Message Icon Topic: Im going to Hell!(Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post Reply Post New Topic
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AbRah2006
 
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bullet Posted: 31 May 2006 at 12:18am
Thank you very much dear Amah...May Allah guides you and your family to His true path and heaven will be your home ...Ameen.
God does not forbid you from showing kindness and dealing justly with those who have not fought you about religion and have not driven you out of your homes. God loves just dealers. (Quran, 60:8)
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Israfil
 
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bullet Posted: 31 May 2006 at 10:16am

Well Sister Amah I could give 10 reasons why:

1) It allows philosophical questioning

2) Challenges the mind

3) The premise of Allah denies the existence of dual realities besides the only reality i.e "there is no god but Allah" etc

4) Islamic knowledge encompasses both the religious and non-religious

5) It helps us understand that our way of life is not some random creation

6) God is within us i.e "And we are closer to you than your own jugular vein"

7) In Islam God tells us that he has left "sign" of his existence which we must ponder thus more challenges for our mind.

8) Islam helps us to admit our frailtility which in essence helps us to submit to God's will.

9) Islam is the only religion which in essence shows us that we do not have total freewill which helps better solve philosophical issues regarding the mind.

10) God knows our intentions which leaves open salvation.

I assume many of you don't know the true saying of Plato, obviously from your replies. Basically what he meant by this is that after deathwe are above our physical limitations. In our spiritual form we will reach beyond our zenith thus would understand and know reality! Some would say that this is an elevated stated or Heaven. Some say this is Nirvana as the Buddhist but who knows? As Allah says s on the Day of Judgement we will know what we did.

AbRah no direspect to you brother as your intentions to me are noble but frankly I'm well aware of the fundamentals of Islam. I called myself a liberal because I'm unorthodox in certain philosophical respect of Islam. Frankly, unorthodoxy is a composition of some of the Islamic beliefs today. We become liberal based on our environement, social structure and upbringing. This is what I mean as I'm opposite of those who blindly follow a specific guideline who they themselves have no knowledge of.

You can quote Qur'an all day brother but that still doesn't answer the question of belief. Nobody here has any reason actually except quote Qur'an which shows the limitations of ourselves. We cannot truly condemn someone if we cannot fully explain why such and such are condemned. We cannot truly say that the Athiest is Kufr if the athiest belief comes from grief not intentional rejection. What I displayed here are reasons why some people do not believe and why we reject them and condemn them.

The Sdifferent schools of thought have done this. The Muti'zilites and Ashrites have done this for hundreds of years. One school of thought may believe such and such are excommunicated from the faith for a minor sin the other may believe for a major sin. We ourselves may not know the extent of Allah's mercy and even if we use parables we still do not know and the only way to know is through death--hence the message of Plato. There are so many variables to why we believe.

For me it was spontaneous enlightenment. For some its courage in others or a small miracle. Why some disbelive it could be from a tragedy or for a person whose spiritual beliefs went undeveloped. Since these are basic realities can we truly say someone who is Kufr is going to hell? It wouldn't be justice for God or even a human to condemn someone because he/she shares a different religion. That is persecution not justice. Well, on this earth that would be persecution anyway. The extent of Allah's mercy is infinite, and incomprehensible.



Edited by Israfil
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Angela
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bullet Posted: 31 May 2006 at 10:38am
Originally posted by Israfil

For me it was spontaneous enlightenment. For some its courage in others or a small miracle. Why some disbelive it could be from a tragedy or for a person whose spiritual beliefs went undeveloped. Since these are basic realities can we truly say someone who is Kufr is going to hell? It wouldn't be justice for God or even a human to condemn someone because he/she shares a different religion. That is persecution not justice. Well, on this earth that would be persecution anyway. The extent of Allah's mercy is infinite, and incomprehensible.

There is a fundemental truth here that members of all three Abrahamic faiths tend to forget.  As Israfil is saying here, Judgement is God's alone.  We can assume we know what God will chose for the non believer.  We can point to revelation and scriptural evidence.  But in the end, God made each and every one of us, he knows our hearts, our strengths, our weaknesses.  He knows how we perceive and what blinders we have on, what coercive tactics have been used on a person.  Only God can truly judge a person.  That is his right alone.

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Israfil
 
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bullet Posted: 31 May 2006 at 6:51pm
Why do you guys (moderators) keep moving my subjects to Intrafaith, clearly this subject addresses all montheistic religions who believe in this eschatology
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AbRah2006
 
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bullet Posted: 31 May 2006 at 8:18pm

To be a Muslim we must accept Allah as One and Only and His messenger the prophet Muhammad. When we accept them we will follow and practise the teachings of Islam. Allah is the All Merciful to Muslims. Who are the Muslims? The Muslims are the people who follow the prophets of Allah since the era of prophet Adam. And we exist after the prophet Muhammad Muhammad was gone and since he is the last messenger of Allah we must follow him because Allah has abolished the past scriptures by sending Quran the final revelation of God to us.

Allah is not cruel so He will NOT send the people who were not exposed to His Word to hell.

Is it fair for Allah to send the non-believers to heaven after they have rejected Him eventhough He has sent His prophets to them?

Yes Allah will be the judge but Allah will not contradict His own Word! Muslims are going to heaven and non-believers will go to HELL !

God does not forbid you from showing kindness and dealing justly with those who have not fought you about religion and have not driven you out of your homes. God loves just dealers. (Quran, 60:8)
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Israfil
 
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bullet Posted: 31 May 2006 at 8:31pm

AbRah.....What if an atheist became an athiest after he/she lost someone at 9/11 at the hand of Muslims (or those who considered themselves muslims). What if the atheist had disdain for Islam for this reason? After all this is a bad experience. Or what if a person is an atheist after an Imam forcefully tried to convert him/her and damned them for not converting on their own terms. I refuse to worship a god who condemns someone just because they had a bad experience and choose not to accept Islam at that time. Again brother there are many variables to why we believe and disbelieve I'm just hoping you can  understand that. Being an athiest does not necessarily mean you may reject God perhaps being apart of the religioon of athiesm you cannot develope your spiritual connection hence disbelieve in the existence of an independent and great entity.

It's easy for us to say "Why can't they believe in God?" but there are so many variables that it would be hard proven to say which and which reason. Therefore we must refrain from judgement.



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AbRah2006
 
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bullet Posted: 01 June 2006 at 12:18am

Israfil said: AbRah.....What if an atheist became an athiest after he/she lost someone at 9/11 at the hand of Muslims (or those who considered themselves muslims).

My response: I want you to give me concrete proofs to support your claim that Muslims were involved in the 9-11 and we will see whether you are right.

Israfil said: I refuse to worship a god who condemns someone just because they had a bad experience and choose not to accept Islam at that time. Again brother there are many variables to why we believe and disbelieve I'm just hoping you can  understand that.

My response: Will Allah accept those variables that deny His existence as the Creator who has created all mankind? Can we dictacte to Allah what we like and what we don't etc? Can a slave or servant dictacte to her or his master? We can't because we are Allah's slaves( servants) but we can pray to Him and there are no intermediary between us and Allah.

Israfil said: Being an athiest does not necessarily mean you may reject God perhaps being apart of the religioon of athiesm you cannot develope your spiritual connection hence disbelieve in the existence of an independent and great entity.

My response: What is the definition of atheism? Atheism, in its broadest sense, is the absence of theism (the belief in the existence of deities).

An athiest is one who disbelieves or denies the existence of God. How can Allah be merciful to those atheists who disbelieves or denies the existence of Allah? The best thing for them to do is to repent and admit that there are no other gods worthy of worship but ALLAH and MUHAMMAD is His Messenger  and practise the teachings of Islam so that Allah will be merciful to them!

Israfil said: It's easy for us to say "Why can't they believe in God?" but there are so many variables that it would be hard proven to say which and which reason. Therefore we must refrain from judgement.

My response: The followers of the prophet Muhammad were brutally persecuted by the pagans but they never changed their religion. Have you ever thought of the prophets of Allah who were persecuted and some of them were  murdered by the non-believer ? Why didn't the prophets become atheists after what they had gone through? Why did the prophets of Allah follow  the Word of  Allah eventhough they were persecuted or murdered by non-believers?

Allah has sent us His Word that is explained further by the teachings of His  messenger Muhammad. If you violate His laws then you are a transgressor.  I  judge people by their words, behavior, actions etc but my judgement is not complete if I have no witnesses and proofs! I cannot judge his or her heart because it is beyond my ability but Allah knows her or his heart. If they worship an idol, then they are the non-believers. If they say that God is a man then they are the non-believers! How do you judge people whether they are good or bad?  How do the judges in the court judge judge the accusers and the accused?

Dear brother Israfil ..Please forgive me if I have offended you. I am sincere and I wish I can help you. My advice for you: Please go to any Islamic centers to meet any Muslim scholars who will help you to solve your problem. I wish you all the best.



Edited by AbRah2006
God does not forbid you from showing kindness and dealing justly with those who have not fought you about religion and have not driven you out of your homes. God loves just dealers. (Quran, 60:8)
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AbRah2006
 
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bullet Posted: 01 June 2006 at 12:34am
Originally posted by Angela

Originally posted by Israfil

For me it was spontaneous enlightenment. For some its courage in others or a small miracle. Why some disbelive it could be from a tragedy or for a person whose spiritual beliefs went undeveloped. Since these are basic realities can we truly say someone who is Kufr is going to hell? It wouldn't be justice for God or even a human to condemn someone because he/she shares a different religion. That is persecution not justice. Well, on this earth that would be persecution anyway. The extent of Allah's mercy is infinite, and incomprehensible.

There is a fundemental truth here that members of all three Abrahamic faiths tend to forget.  As Israfil is saying here, Judgement is God's alone.  We can assume we know what God will chose for the non believer.  We can point to revelation and scriptural evidence.  But in the end, God made each and every one of us, he knows our hearts, our strengths, our weaknesses.  He knows how we perceive and what blinders we have on, what coercive tactics have been used on a person.  Only God can truly judge a person.  That is his right alone.

Only Allah is the All Wise Who can truly judge a person but Allah has ordered  us to follow and practise the teachings Quran and the sayings and actions of His messenger the prophet Muhammad. So I judge anybody based on God's Word and the teachings of His messenger the prophet Muhammad (peace and bless upon him). I judge you by your own words, actions etc that can be detected by our 5 five senses but my judgement is not complete if I have no proofs and witnesses to support my judgement. If I am not fair in my judgement Allah will question me in hereafter. May Allah forgive me..Ameen.  I cannot judge you by your heart because it is beyond my ability but Allah knows your heart!



Edited by AbRah2006
God does not forbid you from showing kindness and dealing justly with those who have not fought you about religion and have not driven you out of your homes. God loves just dealers. (Quran, 60:8)
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