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Interfaith Dialogue
 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : Religion - Islam : Interfaith Dialogue
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AnnieTwo
 
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Quote AnnieTwo Replybullet Posted: 02 June 2006 at 4:18am
Andalus,

I would say there are many who make the claim of being an "ex-Muslim", and I have read the arguments of the biggest "examples" held up by detractors of Islam, and I have yet to find any argument that convinces me 1) that they were actually Muslims and 2) that they have some information that is detrimental to my faith 3) that has any outcome on my faith

BMZ:

You said it well. Nobody even knows their real names and identities. I have yet to see one real "ex-Muslim" in my own life.

I have never met someone who calls themselves an ex-Christian who  really was a Christian in the first place.  Anyone can call themselves whatever they want, but it takes more than calling yourself a Christian to actually be one.

A Muslim who says that they were a former "Christian" and has converted to Islam, is not being accurate.

BMZ, about those "real names."  They change their names because their lives are in danger from the Muslims.  Some change their names because they have found a better one that suits their faith.

Annie
14If you are reproached for the name of Christ, blessed are you, for the Spirit of glory and of God rests upon you. On their part He is blasphemed, but on your part He is glorified. 1 Peter 4

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AbRah2006
 
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Quote AbRah2006 Replybullet Posted: 02 June 2006 at 4:59am

I will give some examples of Christian missionaries who have embraced Islam and they are active in preaching Islam and their names are genuine and so are their background:

 

1) Dr. Gary Miller  was a Christian missionary but  now he is a Muslim missionary  His Muslim name is Abdul-Ahad Omar. His background:

G.R. Miller is a mathematician and a theologian. He was active in Christian missionary work at a particular point of his life but he soon began to discover many inconsistencies in the Bible. In 1978, he happened to read the Qur'an expecting that it, too, would contain a mixture of truth and falsehood.


He discovered to his amazement that the message of the Qur'an was precisely the same as the essence of truth that he had distilled from the Bible. He became a Muslim and since then has been active in giving public presentations on Islam including radio and television appearances. He is also the author of several articles and publications about Islam.

Please visit this website if you to know him http://www.thetruecall.com/home/modules.php?name=News&fi le=article&sid=215

2) Yusuf Estes was a Christian missionary but now  he has embraced Islam

and he become a Muslim missionary. Do you want to know him? Please visit his website http://islamtomorrow.com/  

How can I convince you AnnieTwo?

God does not forbid you from showing kindness and dealing justly with those who have not fought you about religion and have not driven you out of your homes. God loves just dealers. (Quran, 60:8)
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AnnieTwo
 
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Quote AnnieTwo Replybullet Posted: 02 June 2006 at 6:44am
AbRah,

How can I convince you AnnieTwo?

Not by blasting away at the Bible, not by presenting former Christian testimonies who have embraced Islam.  I could counter with former Muslims who have embraced Christianity.

You must explain why you believe that Muhammad was a prophet.  What proof do you have?  Why should one believe that Muhammad was a prophet?  The Qur'an is not proof.

It is your faith, isn't it?  You have faith that he was a prophet.  Isn't it all based on faith?

Were you always a Muslim?  Were you born one?  What is your testimony?

Annie
14If you are reproached for the name of Christ, blessed are you, for the Spirit of glory and of God rests upon you. On their part He is blasphemed, but on your part He is glorified. 1 Peter 4

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AbRah2006
 
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Quote AbRah2006 Replybullet Posted: 02 June 2006 at 8:38am

Originally posted by AnnieTwo

AbRah,

How can I convince you AnnieTwo?

Not by blasting away at the Bible, not by presenting former Christian testimonies who have embraced Islam.  I could counter with former Muslims who have embraced Christianity.

You must explain why you believe that Muhammad was a prophet.  What proof do you have?  Why should one believe that Muhammad was a prophet?  The Qur'an is not proof.

It is your faith, isn't it?  You have faith that he was a prophet.  Isn't it all based on faith?

Were you always a Muslim?  Were you born one?  What is your testimony?

Annie

Please introduce yourself to me.

God does not forbid you from showing kindness and dealing justly with those who have not fought you about religion and have not driven you out of your homes. God loves just dealers. (Quran, 60:8)
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AnnieTwo
 
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Quote AnnieTwo Replybullet Posted: 02 June 2006 at 8:56am
Originally posted by AbRah2006

Originally posted by AnnieTwo

AbRah,

How can I convince you AnnieTwo?

Not by blasting away at the Bible, not by presenting former Christian testimonies who have embraced Islam.  I could counter with former Muslims who have embraced Christianity.

You must explain why you believe that Muhammad was a prophet.  What proof do you have?  Why should one believe that Muhammad was a prophet?  The Qur'an is not proof.

It is your faith, isn't it?  You have faith that he was a prophet.  Isn't it all based on faith?

Were you always a Muslim?  Were you born one?  What is your testimony?

Annie

Please introduce yourself to me.



Hello, AbRah, I am Annie.
14If you are reproached for the name of Christ, blessed are you, for the Spirit of glory and of God rests upon you. On their part He is blasphemed, but on your part He is glorified. 1 Peter 4

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AbRah2006
 
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Quote AbRah2006 Replybullet Posted: 02 June 2006 at 10:53am
Originally posted by AnnieTwo

Originally posted by AbRah2006

Originally posted by AnnieTwo

AbRah,

How can I convince you AnnieTwo?

Not by blasting away at the Bible, not by presenting former Christian testimonies who have embraced Islam.  I could counter with former Muslims who have embraced Christianity.

You must explain why you believe that Muhammad was a prophet.  What proof do you have?  Why should one believe that Muhammad was a prophet?  The Qur'an is not proof.

It is your faith, isn't it?  You have faith that he was a prophet.  Isn't it all based on faith?

Were you always a Muslim?  Were you born one?  What is your testimony?

Annie

Please introduce yourself to me.



Hello, AbRah, I am Annie.

 

Hello Annie....I am AbRah

God does not forbid you from showing kindness and dealing justly with those who have not fought you about religion and have not driven you out of your homes. God loves just dealers. (Quran, 60:8)
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AnnieTwo
 
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Quote AnnieTwo Replybullet Posted: 02 June 2006 at 4:08pm
AbRah,

Hello Annie....I am AbRah

Hello.

Annie



14If you are reproached for the name of Christ, blessed are you, for the Spirit of glory and of God rests upon you. On their part He is blasphemed, but on your part He is glorified. 1 Peter 4

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Andalus
 
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Quote Andalus Replybullet Posted: 02 June 2006 at 4:08pm

Originally posted by AnnieTwo

Andalus,

I would say there are many who make the claim of being an "ex-Muslim", and I have read the arguments of the biggest "examples" held up by detractors of Islam, and I have yet to find any argument that convinces me 1) that they were actually Muslims and 2) that they have some information that is detrimental to my faith 3) that has any outcome on my faith

BMZ:

You said it well. Nobody even knows their real names and identities. I have yet to see one real "ex-Muslim" in my own life.

I have never met someone who calls themselves an ex-Christian who  really was a Christian in the first place.  Anyone can call themselves whatever they want, but it takes more than calling yourself a Christian to actually be one.

The real issue that seems to be fading to the background is whether or not the argument is valid, regardless of where it comes from. To say that an argument is wrong because the person calims to be a convert or apostate from some faith would be a fallacy. This is a fallacy eluded to by detractors of Islam who try and bolster Sina's position by saying "he is an apostate from Islam", and many "so called" expert "ex Muslims" also try and elude to the authenticity of their own claims by giving themselves the title of "ex Muslims", and then one can never verify their claim because "they are hiding from death". Very convenient. The fact is, any claim of apostacy does not, in and of itself, give any automatic validation to their claims. And in fact, poor arguments that contain theolgical errors and dishonest manipulation should cast doubt on any personal claim of true apostacy.

Given the definition of a "real Christian" is someone who believes in the main tenents of the church, which requires some aspect of accepting Jesus as lord and savior, it is not hard to find someone who is an ex Christian. I can name a list of 10 off hand who come from legitimate Christian backgrounds. And after their conversion, they did not spend every waking minute opening trashy, third rate internet sites that aim to trash another faith.

Originally posted by Annie2



A Muslim who says that they were a former "Christian" and has converted to Islam, is not being accurate.

Why?

Originally posted by Annie2


BMZ, about those "real names."  They change their names because their lives are in danger from the Muslims.  Some change their names because they have found a better one that suits their faith.

Annie

 Convenient excuse to hide behind. I challenge you to find me one soild argument from any of your so called, "ex Muslims who cannot verify their own claim publically because they are in some kind of religous protection program". When one exams their arguments, one can find if their knowlegde of their past faith is real or not.

 Peace



Edited by Andalus
A feeling of discouragement when you slip up is a sure sign that you put your faith in deeds. -Ibn 'Ata'llah
http://www.sunnipath.com
http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/
http://www.pt-go.com/
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